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  • Safty

    Last Monday I stoped in the local salvage yard and a young man was cutting what looked like rivets off of a pannel and he was not wearing a face shield not even a pair of eye glasses. He was using an Oxy/Propane tourch. He was not aware that I was behind him. I watch him for a couple of minutes and left. I am in no way connected with this business, but I an aquainted with the owner.

    Now the question is, should I have made myself known to the guy and said something about the lack of face protection; went and said something to the boss/owner or do as I did and mind my business?:confused

    After thinking about this for a couple of days, I probably should have said something to the kid. If I found out that he had lost an eye and I had not said anything, I would realy feel bad.

    I have had about 40 years of safty pounded in my head and I have a tendency to see safty violations. I have hurt my self enough by violating them and it has always been on my time. Just three minnor injurys on the job in 40 years of working.
    Thanks. Charlie
    Don\'t ask me to do a dam thing, I\'m retired.
    http://home.earthlink.net/~kcprecision/

  • #2
    I think you should of, Of course the guy doing the cutting would of said "what does that old f**t know". Hey we were all young and stupid once, I know I was. But the person you really should of said something to is the owner of the yard. As a businessman the last thing he needs is an industrial injury that's going to jack his insurrance rates or a civil lawsuit. Because you know damn sure that if this idiot got hurt it would be his bosses fault.
    Forty plus years and I still have ten toes, ten fingers and both eyes. I must be doing something right.

    Comment


    • #3
      Charlie
      When I see stupid **** like that I say something - safety reg are in place for their own good. I also make mention of the event to the foreman or manager so that they are aware that there might be a problem. Ultimately, it is their responsibility to insure that their employees follow the safety regs to the letter of the law. For example, any occupation that requires a full face mask breathing gear it is law in both Canada and the US that as an employee required to use that equipment you cannot have facial hair (beard) as it interferes with the seal.

      Safety regs are there to protect people. Most times they protect people from themselves.

      [This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 01-24-2003).]

      Comment


      • #4
        Yeah. You know, in the states, if an employee refuses to wear required safety gear, you are about obligated to can them.

        So, the excuse that the person wouldn't / didn't wear their gear won't cut it any more.

        They wear it or they walk.

        Comment


        • #5
          <font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by charlie coghill:
          I have had about 40 years of safty pounded in my head and I have a tendency to see safty violations. Charlie</font>
          I showed my friend( the plant saftey and health director) a picture of the old lathe that I am retsoring and his first words were " open gears!! no belt guards!!". I just laughed, becuase once you start looking at things in a "Safe" way, the world is a very scary place somedays

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          • #6
            Ever since I had an acid brush (one of those tin-handled jobs) get picked out of my hand and walked through a set of spur gears, I have had a great fondness for gear guards.
            ----------
            Try to make a living, not a killing. -- Utah Phillips
            Don't believe everything you know. -- Bumper sticker
            Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects. -- Will Rogers
            There are lots of people who mistake their imagination for their memory. - Josh Billings
            Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
            Don't own anything you have to feed or paint. - Hood River Blackie

            Comment


            • #7
              safety is job one. I would have noted it. If the boss gave me hell, e-mail OHSA or something.

              I do some crazy stuff to show safety in my shop. Mash the living heck out of safety lenses with a sledge hammer - they do not shatter. This is your eye on sledge.

              Run acid brushes through knurlers - This is your finger on knurl. The kids wonder if the knurl pattern will stay on the finger as it does on the brush, but they really get the idea.

              I pull a guard off a machine gearing, and do this. I hold a piece of paper towel in my hand - about three feet away, and on the other end of the paper towel is the rest of the roll on a roll dispenser. at 500 RPMs at the spindle, it takes about 3 to five seconds to take the whole roll.

              Ran a frozen hot dog (better simulates a finger and the bones and such) through a 4 flute 3/4 inch end mill on the end of the part. held it with a stick about 2 feet off, let her rip. I hate doing this, it takes a week to get the hot dog out of the crevices on the wall.....stinks if done wrong. Quit doing this two years back when a kid passed out and mom and dad complained to my boss.... Kid never got his hands close.....One of my best safety advocates in the end.

              Run a piece of 1 inch pine dowl against a band saw blade - backing a piece of metal. The blade breaks through the metal, hits the dowel, and cuts 3/4 way through in a blink. This is your finger on bandsaw.......

              I have tons of these gimicks, and do active demonstrations, but believe me, very cautious, very cautious in them......


              Watched a demonstration once. A teacher in Dover (now gone back to England) had a "chuckie" doll. Good size, like the horror movie guy. Used to put the head on a small balsa stick on the tool post (so it broke off easy), and while talking about something else, he moved it closer until "WHAM', the head caught and most of the hair ripped off - he used to glue it back on, and also had a special guard made for this....... Closest he got was ten inches.......

              I do yet another where I put flour in a cup, and pour it in front of the lathe chuck at 12 inches - slowly. The chuck vaccuum picks up the flour, runs it in the jaws and out, and spreads it all over the place. heck of a clean-up. The new way is now to use those little paper punches - hole left overs- out of the paper punches, better for the machine........

              All through my demonstrations, I even tell them how dangerous the demonstrations themselfs can be without precautions - like added guarding, lock outs for the machine being used - only unlocked for the demo, and immediately locked out again, and the 2 foot sticks I use because the idea of getting that close scares the heck out of me to begin with.......
              CCBW, MAH

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for the replys people. I believe that next time I will say something. What can he say? Get the $%^^&%#$#%^&^ out of here.
                Charlie
                Don\'t ask me to do a dam thing, I\'m retired.
                http://home.earthlink.net/~kcprecision/

                Comment


                • #9
                  I see people do stupid things all the time.Your boy with the torch is real common.The real problem here is even if the boy doesn't hurt him self today in the future it will catch up to him.Many times the damage caused by poor safety practice is compounded over time.The eyes are especially affected by constant exposure to bright light continued use of a cutting or welding torch will cause permanent damage even if its for a few minutes at a time.I now this from experience.What I would tell the boy are these two things if you think the light might be to bright close your eyes after a few seconds and if you see a halo or shadow of the light image you are causing damage and it is ireversable!Also Grandpa told me when it comes to safety you can always get another job but you only have one life!
                  I just need one more tool,just one!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Spope
                    As I've told my father quite a few times, I don't need to get hit over the head by a sledge hammer to get your point. I too stress safety in my classes, but don't go to the theatrics as you do. In about 25 years of working with machines, I still have all my fingers and toes, and so far a pretty good track record with kids.They still have all their fingers and toes too.

                    When you stand next to a drill press and demonstrate the trajectory of a chuck key flying out of a chuck and where it's going to hit on a variety of kids from below the belt to the top of the head, they get the picture.

                    I think some kids are actually more dangerous around a piece of machinery if they are scared of it. I hope to build their respect for the safe use of the machine, and give them confidence in using it the right way.

                    With that said, I guess you can't argue with success, If the hot dog thing works go with it. By the way, can you do it with a sausage too?

                    Charlie, say something to the guy and then be prepared for the negative comment, maybe even offer up the facemask in the shop if it's available.
                    Matt

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                    • #11
                      Thanks to all. Next time the situation arrises,even if I am not part of the project.
                      Charlie
                      Don\'t ask me to do a dam thing, I\'m retired.
                      http://home.earthlink.net/~kcprecision/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just throwing in my $.02 worth.

                        A well armed society is a civil society and one of the hallmarks of such a society is that people mind their own business and do not meddle in the affairs of others. With that said I see at least four viable options for the current situation. 1) Tell the owner that you feel unsafe in his yard and you will take your business elsware until the conditions are corrected. 2) Offer to give safety lessons to his staff and new hires based on your experiences in exchange for yard picks. 3) Report the safety conditions to the appropriate governmental agency. This is not any different than a 911 call for a crime in progress. 4) Walk away and let the "invisible hand" of Adam Smith work its free market thing. Personally I like option 2 and if turned down would take option 4.

                        ------------------
                        Neil Peters
                        Neil Peters

                        When on the hunt, a broken part is better than no part at all.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think Neil has the best advice. option 2 is offering s service (a needed service) in exchange for compensation, which is in line with the "free market" economy, OPtion 4 is even more in line, pretty soon the place will be up for sale if the safety equipement was really need, or making more money if it wasn't need. We need more Darwin economics.

                          Interevention into things that do not affect you personaly are bad manners, the exception being when you truely believe the person doing the dumb thing is unaware of the dangers, in which case you best be ready to spend much time cause the person is ignorant of much more than the need for eye protection.

                          Friend, long deceased now, borrowed use of my welder. He arrived dressed in skimpy shorts and sandals. We discussed possible need for clothing and foot ware. Too much trouble to go home and change, my clothes would not fit him etc, etc. He burned rods all day, burned in bed all nite, slathered creams on for two days. Only time is ever heard of a man with severe sun burn on his gonads (not short on under those shorts). He was a professor at local university.

                          As I pointed out to him- lots of people confuse intelligence with "accumulated knowledge". Until they absorb the difference, they are not teachable becasue they speak, think and act from the instinctive idea that they and their like are "intelligent". And kids working in scrap yards are more intelligent than we are.

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                          • #14
                            With due respect, I disagree with Neil. A civil society is also a kind society. Offering to get the safety mask from the shop or offering to check to see if one is available does a couple of things. It puts a bug in the guys head that maybe what he is doing is unsafe, and it doesn't embarass him.(although i personally don't get overly concerned about embarassment) It will (i think) just seem like a kindly jesture of good will to the person.

                            Ok enough about the guy in the scrap yard. Here's one of my favorite stories. A lady I worked with was standing at her kitchen sink doing her dish and keeping an eye on her smoldering burn barrel in her back yard( yea probably shouldn't have a burn barrel) When she spies a young neighbor boy of 10 or 12 years walking towards her burn barrel with a gallon gasoline can. She darted out her back door and ran and tackled the boy just as he was about to pour the gasoline into her burn barrel. In appreciation of possibly saving the boys life, or at the least saving him from severe burns, the mother called her up and threatened a law suit because my friend tackled her boy.
                            Matt

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                            • #15
                              Matt, a kind society is nice but kindness still requires asking permission before one acts. I address this matter from personal experience as I am on crutches and one leg. Many atime bores have charged in front of me to "help" open a door and darn near dump me on my keaster in the process. Others think my IQ is directly related to the number of limbs and treat me accordingly. NO, people should mind their own business and if they can not constrain themselves then ask permission to help and accept the answer they get. Kindness is important but should not be forced on anybody for then it becomes intrusion.

                              Now your interest in sponsoring engineering interests in the young is commedable. This is badly needed in our society if we are to progress in an inteligent manner. My pet pieve is the drive of politicians to hide everything behind walls. I fight with Planning and Zoning on this issue all the time. How can we get the kids interested in engineering if we hide things like powerplants etc. behind walls as if they were something to be ashamed of? Oooops starting to rant, signing off.

                              ------------------
                              Neil Peters
                              Neil Peters

                              When on the hunt, a broken part is better than no part at all.

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