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  • #46
    Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
    I don't want a blanchard grind finish. I know the swirls look pretty but not for me. Cheap saw tops were blanchard ground because it was quicker and cheaper to do.

    That rough finish also causes some increased friction when moving wood across it.

    JL................
    You can always sand it off after to create a landscape of flat topped plateaus. I did that early on with my own saw's table and wings and after the usual waxing to protect the iron the wood glides really sweetly. And FAR more easily then it did when new. The "valleys" of the swirls are still there. But the work rides on the flattened off plateaus instead of sharp grippy crests.

    As for doing this at home with home solutions first off you need some way to create a topographic mapping of the table. It would be nice if you could set up two long straights on opposite edges that are dead nutz parallel and then some sort of bridge that you can measure from. But whatever you have and are comfortable using. It could even be your planer blade and a back light used to locally check for dips and peaks.

    Obviously we don't need "surface plate flatness" here. We're only after the idea of reducing the mountain to a series of insignificant hills. And I'm sure you've got an angle grinder for doing the bulk of the really way out of spec work and reduce that portion of the bull work.

    For flattening out after the power work and working down an area to final flatness I'd suggest a large flat file (check for being straight first) held in a simple wood holder that grips the edges and "hand plane" the area to flatten out the local crests. and reduce the "foothills" to blend with the flat areas around the rest of the table.

    I know this sounds like a heap of work but I suspect that provided you can figure out a way to easily find and check the humps and valleys that you can remove them with only a few hours of work. It won't be "surface plate flat" by any means. But as the others are quick to point out "it's just a table saw". But with not too much work I feel like you or I could flatten the top to a degree that by wood working standards it would then be better by a lot than simply "good enough".

    Before all this work though I'd still want to flip the table over and ensure that the trunnion assembly isn't simply pulling the table out of spec. And to check the fit of the top to the lower base It would be.... a little frustrating?... to find that the trunnion assembly or the base is out of whack and is pulling up a wave in the table. It's a good time to check and correct any misalignment of the trunnion assembly to the table slots anyway while you're at it.
    Chilliwack BC, Canada

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Moxiedad2001 View Post
      ......And I agree with one poster that a sawn surface is not a proper glue surface. ....
      Maybe I got lucky or maybe it is because my saw was adjusted early on to set the blade dead on to the table grooves and to ensure that the rip fence is also dead on by machinist's standards. But when I use my proper rip blade the finish left is as nice as the jointer. Not shiny smooth by any means. But there's no swirl marks from the blade that can be seen with the naked eye.

      So it can be done. But as you posted not by saws that have flaws that are enough to drive a poor soul to drink. Your story with the Craftsman saw would certainly have driven me to a life of drink... or a new saw

      Someone else I knew was super impressed with my results and mentioned that his edges were always all rough with very clear saw marks. When I was over that way some time later I looked at his saw and the bearings in the spindle were shot. Or the shaft wasn't a good fit. The blade was able to slide side to side around .01'ish.. so no wonder.

      I'm not saying that the tool below is The Secret but it sure did make setting up and periodically checking my blade and rip fence for being all parallel to the cross cut slots. I made this up around 15 or so years ago. I also use it when ripping super thin strips.

      Click image for larger version

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      Chilliwack BC, Canada

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Moxiedad2001 View Post
        Although I agree that 0.010 can make a difference in woodworking, the skeptics here have offered some valid reasons why regrinding may not be worthwhile. You may be better off applying the money to a better saw. I suffered with a "top-of-the-line" Craftsman for 30 years. It's most irksome (but not only) problem was that the blade was parallel to the miter gauge slots at only one height. Raise or lower it, and the blade would run off in either direction. It could not be adjusted out. By the time I could afford a Powermatic I was done with most of my woodworking. Life is too short to suffer with poor tools.

        And I agree with one poster that a sawn surface is not a proper glue surface. You need to joint the edge anyway, so invest in a 22- or 24-inch jointer plane (assuming you don't have a power jointer). An older Record or Stanley would be dandy. The new Lie-Nielsens are very nice, of course, but salty. There's a reason why they are called "jointers" and saws are called "saws."
        No sir, not true. I have a beveled sanding disc that Craftsman made. Glue a piece of sandpaper to it and set the arbor tilt
        to - 2 degree tilt and edge the boards for gluing. Does a much nicer job than a jointer.

        JL...............

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by BCRider View Post

          You can always sand it off after to create a landscape of flat topped plateaus. I did that early on with my own saw's table and wings and after the usual waxing to protect the iron the wood glides really sweetly. And FAR more easily then it did when new. The "valleys" of the swirls are still there. But the work rides on the flattened off plateaus instead of sharp grippy crests.

          As for doing this at home with home solutions first off you need some way to create a topographic mapping of the table. It would be nice if you could set up two long straights on opposite edges that are dead nutz parallel and then some sort of bridge that you can measure from. But whatever you have and are comfortable using. It could even be your planer blade and a back light used to locally check for dips and peaks.

          Obviously we don't need "surface plate flatness" here. We're only after the idea of reducing the mountain to a series of insignificant hills. And I'm sure you've got an angle grinder for doing the bulk of the really way out of spec work and reduce that portion of the bull work.

          For flattening out after the power work and working down an area to final flatness I'd suggest a large flat file (check for being straight first) held in a simple wood holder that grips the edges and "hand plane" the area to flatten out the local crests. and reduce the "foothills" to blend with the flat areas around the rest of the table.

          I know this sounds like a heap of work but I suspect that provided you can figure out a way to easily find and check the humps and valleys that you can remove them with only a few hours of work. It won't be "surface plate flat" by any means. But as the others are quick to point out "it's just a table saw". But with not too much work I feel like you or I could flatten the top to a degree that by wood working standards it would then be better by a lot than simply "good enough".

          Before all this work though I'd still want to flip the table over and ensure that the trunnion assembly isn't simply pulling the table out of spec. And to check the fit of the top to the lower base It would be.... a little frustrating?... to find that the trunnion assembly or the base is out of whack and is pulling up a wave in the table. It's a good time to check and correct any misalignment of the trunnion assembly to the table slots anyway while you're at it.
          Your right, we don't need surface plate flatness but the error I have causes issues for me.

          I agree with you about mapping the surface and taking the top off to see what is causing the error. I need to check flatness of the underside perimeter of the table to see if the error is visible there.

          If the top is infact bowed or bent I may be able to fixture it on my 1 1/2" thick welding table and with a big C-clamp squeeze it back to flat. I can also check the trunnion mounts to see if the three spots are flat on that end of the table.

          It's a strange way this table mounts to the cabinet. The front end where the motor and all the weight is hanging is flat. (See my post #31 picture.) That end sits directly on the cabinet corners.
          The other end, operator end, where the U formed channel is bolted to the bottom of the top........ that U channel is what mounts to the cabinet corners.

          So another way to put it is the top is setting on three points, not four. The U-channel bolts across the corners of the cabinet and the table bolts to the center of the U-channel.

          I believe it was designed that way for a reason........... reason being so if the cabinet is setting on uneven flooring any twisting / racking of the cabinet wouldn't
          twist or torque the top. How many machines can you think of that set on three points ?? My surface sets on three points, so do both of my grinders

          JL.....................
          Last edited by JoeLee; 11-22-2020, 04:08 PM.

          Comment


          • #50
            Self leveling epoxy...

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            • #51
              Originally posted by BCRider View Post

              Maybe I got lucky or maybe it is because my saw was adjusted early on to set the blade dead on to the table grooves and to ensure that the rip fence is also dead on by machinist's standards. But when I use my proper rip blade the finish left is as nice as the jointer. Not shiny smooth by any means. But there's no swirl marks from the blade that can be seen with the naked eye.

              So it can be done. But as you posted not by saws that have flaws that are enough to drive a poor soul to drink. Your story with the Craftsman saw would certainly have driven me to a life of drink... or a new saw

              Someone else I knew was super impressed with my results and mentioned that his edges were always all rough with very clear saw marks. When I was over that way some time later I looked at his saw and the bearings in the spindle were shot. Or the shaft wasn't a good fit. The blade was able to slide side to side around .01'ish.. so no wonder.

              I'm not saying that the tool below is The Secret but it sure did make setting up and periodically checking my blade and rip fence for being all parallel to the cross cut slots. I made this up around 15 or so years ago. I also use it when ripping super thin strips.

              Click image for larger version

Name:	P1030945.JPG
Views:	142
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ID:	1911709
              Been there / done that. You have to do that on two planes. One where the blade is vertical or square to the table and the other when the arbor is tilted at 45 deg.

              I had to make a couple of fine adjustment blocks to mount to the trunnion bolts so I could make fine adjustments to the tracking of the blade. (see my post #31)

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              Click image for larger version

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              JL.................

              Comment


              • #52
                Looking at the operator end of the saw, if you look at the center of the table bottom right on the rib you'll see a half round bump, that's the mounting post for the operator end of the table. It sets on the U-channel that is bolted to each corner.

                JL...............

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Doozer View Post

                  Standard procedure to run wood through a jointer for proper fit up.
                  Trying to make a table saw finish wood like it came through a jointer
                  is a bit over the top as far as expectations go.

                  -D
                  Have you ever used one of these???

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                  My jointer has three knives, it cuts clean but still leaves that scalloped look on an edge. the fence is only about three inches high. try running an 8" wide board through it with out tipping it.

                  That sanding disc make seamless joints, far better than my jointer can do, providing your table is flat and the board doesn't waver through the dips.

                  JL..............

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Moxiedad2001 View Post
                    Although I agree that 0.010 can make a difference in woodworking, the skeptics here have offered some valid reasons why regrinding may not be worthwhile. You may be better off applying the money to a better saw. I suffered with a "top-of-the-line" Craftsman for 30 years. It's most irksome (but not only) problem was that the blade was parallel to the miter gauge slots at only one height. Raise or lower it, and the blade would run off in either direction. It could not be adjusted out. By the time I could afford a Powermatic I was done with most of my woodworking. Life is too short to suffer with poor tools.
                    nice
                    And I agree with one poster that a sawn surface is not a proper glue surface. You need to joint the edge anyway, so invest in a 22- or 24-inch jointer plane (assuming you don't have a power jointer). An older Record or Stanley would be dandy. The new Lie-Nielsens are very nice, of course, but salty. There's a reason why they are called "jointers" and saws are called "saws."
                    I've been doing woodworking for a little bit over 50 years now, starting in 4-H. Until recently I never had a jointer and didn't feel a need for one until my dad died and nobody else in the family wanted his jointer. Jointers are nice for straightening a board out but I never felt a need to joint a board before gluing. I built an oak kitchen about 35 years ago and made the solid oak doors for all the cabinets from rough sawn oak. I used the table saw to straighten the sides and then glued them. I'm still using those cabinets all these years later and have never had a problem with any of them cracking or breaking.

                    If you have a rough sawn board that you want to join to another board, do you joint one side, then cut it parallel in a saw, then joint it? Maybe I missed something in my years of woodworking.
                    OPEN EYES, OPEN EARS, OPEN MIND

                    THINK HARDER

                    BETTER TO HAVE TOOLS YOU DON'T NEED THAN TO NEED TOOLS YOU DON'T HAVE

                    MY NAME IS BRIAN AND I AM A TOOLOHOLIC

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by bborr01 View Post

                      I've been doing woodworking for a little bit over 50 years now, starting in 4-H. Until recently I never had a jointer and didn't feel a need for one until my dad died and nobody else in the family wanted his jointer. Jointers are nice for straightening a board out but I never felt a need to joint a board before gluing. I built an oak kitchen about 35 years ago and made the solid oak doors for all the cabinets from rough sawn oak. I used the table saw to straighten the sides and then glued them. I'm still using those cabinets all these years later and have never had a problem with any of them cracking or breaking.

                      If you have a rough sawn board that you want to join to another board, do you joint one side, then cut it parallel in a saw, then joint it? Maybe I missed something in my years of woodworking.
                      Yes, or you can run it through the planer if it's wide enough. I've found jointers to make a large difference, especially face jointing, as a planer will just copy the twist of the board. Unfortunately 12" planers are cheap as chips, and 12" jointers cost a small fortune.
                      21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
                      1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        If you want to grind the top, fine, have it ground, but you need to have it stress relieved (normalized) first, otherwise grinding it flat will be futile and maybe impossible. Tablesaw tables are hard to keep flat, they usually aren't thick enough or have heavy enough ribbing underneath to be stable. Then they complicate matters by putting two longitudinal slots in them and a giant hole in the middle.

                        I just need one more tool,just one!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by The Metal Butcher View Post

                          Yes, or you can run it through the planer if it's wide enough. I've found jointers to make a large difference, especially face jointing, as a planer will just copy the twist of the board. Unfortunately 12" planers are cheap as chips, and 12" jointers cost a small fortune.
                          I was referring to the sides of the boards. Also, when I made the doors for my cabinets I glued them together and brought them to a shop with a big planer and sander. They are pretty straight but then I started with boards that were properly dried and pretty straight.

                          Do some woodworkers run both sides of a board through a jointer before gluing them? It seems like an extra step for nothing.

                          JoeLee, sorry about the thread drift.
                          OPEN EYES, OPEN EARS, OPEN MIND

                          THINK HARDER

                          BETTER TO HAVE TOOLS YOU DON'T NEED THAN TO NEED TOOLS YOU DON'T HAVE

                          MY NAME IS BRIAN AND I AM A TOOLOHOLIC

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            It would be interesting to reassemble the saw, complete, and then indicate the top at both minimum and maximum extension, and at both extremes of tilt. If you were to surface the top without the trunnions, motor mount, and tilt mechanisms warping it, you won't know how or where to correct it. My mentor had a small Wallace table saw, designed to trim linotype, that he used to make the fancy inlaid banding that you see on high end furniture. He worked to thouanths, using calipers. That was the heaviest saw I ever saw.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by bborr01 View Post

                              I was referring to the sides of the boards. Also, when I made the doors for my cabinets I glued them together and brought them to a shop with a big planer and sander. They are pretty straight but then I started with boards that were properly dried and pretty straight.

                              Do some woodworkers run both sides of a board through a jointer before gluing them? It seems like an extra step for nothing.

                              JoeLee, sorry about the thread drift.
                              Not a problem. A jointer won't make the board parallel. It will only take the bow out of it. That's about all I ever use my jointer for. Then rip for parallel.

                              JL...................

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by The Metal Butcher View Post

                                Yes, or you can run it through the planer if it's wide enough. I've found jointers to make a large difference, especially face jointing, as a planer will just copy the twist of the board. Unfortunately 12" planers are cheap as chips, and 12" jointers cost a small fortune.
                                This is true. If you have cupping in a board a planer won't remove it. When I run into a situation like that I usually hand plane the curse out of the board and then plane it..... providing I have enough thickness to play with.

                                JL...............

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