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  • #91
    Originally posted by Doozer View Post

    ......Pressing a machine into service beyond its design intention
    can lead to disappointment or out and out failure. Maybe both.
    The poor house mentality is getting old around here for sure.

    -Doozer

    It's not a case of pushing past the limit. It's more a case of making it work to the full capability of the machine's design.

    And last I heard this forum is called "HOME SHOP MACHINIST" which implies that many here are working in a non commercial way with limited tools and limited funds and in a lot of cases limited room.

    You do this stuff for a living where time is money, the work needs to flow and in the end the customer pays the bills. That is far from the case for a good number of us hobbyists. And due to the constraints of many hobby budgets it's not realistic to simply scrap a machine tool and buy a new one. Or at least not a choice taken before other avenues are searched out and traveled.

    Chilliwack BC, Canada

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
      It doesn't have to be sprung by any great amount and that amount is gradual and over a large area. How would one go about flame straightening it??
      I've never really used this method before. I've seen things move when heated but they usually move right back when they cool. Where would I start??

      JL..................
      Visit your local shipyard and watch them make compound curves in 1" thick steel plates You just need a torch and a garden hose.

      Comment


      • #93
        Don't we all make improvements on our tools?

        If you saw my table saw, you would see why I would rejoice if I had his. But even mine cuts wood. And that's my NEW table saw. My old, first table saw was a kit built monster. And I made a lot of good stuff with that one too. I always say the skill and accuracy is first in the hands, second in the mind, and only third in the tools.

        All that being said, I can easily see why he may consider some effort and expense may be justified here. And I have offered suggestions that I think would work.



        Originally posted by Doozer View Post


        You need a larger jointer.
        Pony up.

        It sounds like you are trying to make a silk purse out of your table saw
        when most people who work wood just buy an appropriate jointer.
        Maybe you are trying to do too much with a machine that was never intended
        to perform to your expectations.

        You can carry 2 tons on a F-150,
        but you need to change the axles, brakes, tires, frame....
        There comes a point of diminishing return.

        If you are going to do cabinet grade work,
        just buy cabinet making grade tools.
        You can make cabinets with a Skil saw,
        but you are going to work hard at it.

        -Doozer
        Last edited by Paul Alciatore; 11-23-2020, 06:36 PM.
        Paul A.
        SE Texas

        And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
        You will find that it has discrete steps.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
          My old, first table saw was a kit built monster. And I made a lot of good stuff with that one too.
          All that being said, I can easily see why he may consider some effort and expense may be justified here. And I have offered suggestions that I think would work.
          Was your saw a Darra James?

          A table saw isn't a jointer, which is built differently to perform the function of straightening.

          Comment


          • #95
            All kidding aside, It does look like a heavy and very well built saw.
            Worth trying to make right.
            My comment is just that you are expecting an awful lot from a table saw
            when most people would rely on a jointer for such finishing operations.
            But I do appreciate the back and forth. Makes things interesting.
            I appreciate all you guys.

            ----Doozer
            DZER

            Comment


            • #96
              A table saw can do a lot of things- including making good enough cuts for edge gluing. I have three of the old Rockwell Beaver table saws that I look after, plus two Deltas- one of which is the main saw in the shop where I used to work. Four of the five I've given the 'treatment' to make them better to work with. One of the Rockwells I haven't touched yet- the older Delta has over 40 years use on it in a production shop, and I prevented it from being sold off because it's still a good saw. It now has a table that's 5 ft front to back, and about 9 ft from left to right. The fence is 5 ft long and can be used on either side of the blade. This is the go-to saw for all solid wood cutting, dadoing, rabbetting, and lining operations. That's what I use to prep materials for edge gluing. The fence is controlled front and back with a cable and pulley system, so it stays square and is easy to move. It locks down at both ends using a single lever- what a joy to use. This saw, plus the other two in the shop will cut the thickness of paper without removing wood, as will the Beaver I have at home. None of these has a perfectly flat table, but I have scraped high spots and as importantly, I've either re-worked or replaced the inserts. The insert is the real weak spot on all of these saws- any scraping you do will be for naught if the insert is not level with the table, or flexes downwards as you hold material to the table.

              I've never yet worked with a saw where play in the arbor has caused any significant error in a cut. With a good fence and reasonable expertise in using the saw, I can remove 3 thou consistently if I need to. A 10 thou error is pretty sloppy in my opinion. Just yesterday I cut out a whole kit of kitchen drawers, making the fit of the corners within a paper thickness of accuracy. Didn't really take me any longer either. The hardest part of this was setting the fence on the 'big saw' since it doesn't want to move only a few thou- but once set it went through the whole kit without making an error.

              My whole point is that accurate work can easily be done even if the saw has a slightly wavy table. As much depends on the operator as anything, and a 'superior' saw doesn't automatically make great cuts. As I've said or alluded to earlier, the insert is a bigger problem area, and if you scrape off high spots, you have done as much as is needed to the table itself.

              I need to say this though about the 5 ft long fence- when you cut even a small amount from one edge of a long board, the board can warp and prevent you from getting an even width across the board from one end to the other. That's not a problem with the saw, it's the material warping as you're working with it. Part of the skill in making good cuts is knowing the ways to get around the problems.
              I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

              Comment


              • #97
                Just a thought. How about having it Blanchard ground to get it reasonably flat and then scraping it in to perfection? It would certainly take out the Blanchard grinding marks and ...it would look cool as hell.

                Comment


                • #98
                  have you ever scraped? i think i could wear out my biax on that.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by darryl View Post
                    This saw, .... .... will cut the thickness of paper without removing wood, .
                    How does it do that?
                    Lynn (Huntsville, AL)

                    Comment


                    • I've always felt the quality of the fence was the key factor in how well a saw works. About 15 years ago, I picked up a little Delta benchtop saw at a garage sale. Motor ran, blade didn't spin, figured if nothing else, could get some good parts. Got home, opened it up, belt is broken. $12 for a new belt and back in business. Next problem, the fence is a POS. Remembered I had an old issue of Fine Woodworking that had an article on building a precision fence using Unistrut channel. So I did, and that, plus tightening up the miter gage, that little saw was a wonder. About 5 years ago, had a chance to buy a Rigid table saw, that with al the discounts I could muster, cost me right at $500 bucks. Sold the Delta for $100. Only problem with it was not enough power. Would suggest you look up that article, and consider building a new fence. Don't think I still have a copy.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by dian View Post
                        have you ever scraped? i think i could wear out my biax on that.
                        A fair bit. I didn't say it would be easy. Heck, Moore hand scraped three huge plates(Whitworh sequence) just for exercise. Biax is for sissies. Anderson Bros. is the only way. Don't say that to my Biax though.
                        Last edited by darylbane; 11-24-2020, 11:50 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by elf View Post

                          Visit your local shipyard and watch them make compound curves in 1" thick steel plates You just need a torch and a garden hose.
                          You can heat steel bend it 45 degrees, heat and push it back... try that on cast iron.. good luck..
                          not saying it can work , but if it was a steel weldment..far far less risk..

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by darryl View Post
                            A table saw can do a lot of things- including making good enough cuts for edge gluing. I have three of the old Rockwell Beaver table saws that I look after, plus two Deltas- one of which is the main saw in the shop where I used to work. Four of the five I've given the 'treatment' to make them better to work with. One of the Rockwells I haven't touched yet- the older Delta has over 40 years use on it in a production shop, and I prevented it from being sold off because it's still a good saw. It now has a table that's 5 ft front to back, and about 9 ft from left to right. The fence is 5 ft long and can be used on either side of the blade. This is the go-to saw for all solid wood cutting, dadoing, rabbetting, and lining operations. That's what I use to prep materials for edge gluing. The fence is controlled front and back with a cable and pulley system, so it stays square and is easy to move. It locks down at both ends using a single lever- what a joy to use. This saw, plus the other two in the shop will cut the thickness of paper without removing wood, as will the Beaver I have at home. None of these has a perfectly flat table, but I have scraped high spots and as importantly, I've either re-worked or replaced the inserts. The insert is the real weak spot on all of these saws- any scraping you do will be for naught if the insert is not level with the table, or flexes downwards as you hold material to the table.

                            I've never yet worked with a saw where play in the arbor has caused any significant error in a cut. With a good fence and reasonable expertise in using the saw, I can remove 3 thou consistently if I need to. A 10 thou error is pretty sloppy in my opinion. Just yesterday I cut out a whole kit of kitchen drawers, making the fit of the corners within a paper thickness of accuracy. Didn't really take me any longer either. The hardest part of this was setting the fence on the 'big saw' since it doesn't want to move only a few thou- but once set it went through the whole kit without making an error.

                            My whole point is that accurate work can easily be done even if the saw has a slightly wavy table. As much depends on the operator as anything, and a 'superior' saw doesn't automatically make great cuts. As I've said or alluded to earlier, the insert is a bigger problem area, and if you scrape off high spots, you have done as much as is needed to the table itself.

                            I need to say this though about the 5 ft long fence- when you cut even a small amount from one edge of a long board, the board can warp and prevent you from getting an even width across the board from one end to the other. That's not a problem with the saw, it's the material warping as you're working with it. Part of the skill in making good cuts is knowing the ways to get around the problems.
                            My arbor has a couple thou of end play but it doesn't hinder the accuracy as you mentioned. I think when the arbor is spinning at 3400 r's the bearings center up.

                            I shave thousandths of board edges and ends all the time. Below are some examples.

                            The banding / edge trim I cut is .22 in thickness and is pretty consistent. It was cut from Birch. The small scrap piece .015 and is pine. Some soft or open grain wood just doesn't hold together when you start shaving that thin.

                            I shaved .003 off some of the end of the small pine block. It can be done. I wold have a little trouble doing that with a 6" wide board because of the slight unevenness of the top.

                            That caliper is standard equipment in my wood shop.

                            JL...............


                            Click image for larger version

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                            • Originally posted by Corbettprime View Post
                              I've always felt the quality of the fence was the key factor in how well a saw works. About 15 years ago, I picked up a little Delta benchtop saw at a garage sale. Motor ran, blade didn't spin, figured if nothing else, could get some good parts. Got home, opened it up, belt is broken. $12 for a new belt and back in business. Next problem, the fence is a POS. Remembered I had an old issue of Fine Woodworking that had an article on building a precision fence using Unistrut channel. So I did, and that, plus tightening up the miter gage, that little saw was a wonder. About 5 years ago, had a chance to buy a Rigid table saw, that with al the discounts I could muster, cost me right at $500 bucks. Sold the Delta for $100. Only problem with it was not enough power. Would suggest you look up that article, and consider building a new fence. Don't think I still have a copy.
                              Yes, the fence is key to straight edges. About 25 years ago I had my fence ground. It had a 1/32" bow in the middle. The other side was convex. Couldn't use either side of it. That was my first step in fine tuning the saw. The quest continues !

                              JL...............

                              Comment


                              • How to saw off only 3 thou- run a piece through the saw, then add one thickness of paper between the piece and the fence. Off comes another 3 thou. Or run a piece through the saw, make a few pencil marks on the edge, then glue on a piece of paper. After that dries, run it through the saw again. The paper will be gone, but the pencil marks will remain. Of course this assumes you didn't move the fence between cuts.

                                The fence has always been a big issue for me. Until I started making cable-controlled fences, I always had a problem setting a fine adjustment and keeping the fence square to the blade and slots. I can see that easily creating a discrepancy of 1/32 inch, and maybe that's why most people only work to that degree of precision.
                                I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

                                Comment

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