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Best way to make these for a saw filer.

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  • Best way to make these for a saw filer.

    I'd like to expand the versatility of my Acme saw filer. I have only one pair of file holders, I'm not actually sure they even made more than one size, I haven't located any in the Acme (MAX manufacturing) literature. A 6 slim file fits well, a 6 extra slim fits fine if the tang is cut down by 1/4". A 6 regular and 6 double slim are too big on their ends or too small. I'd like some opinions on the best way to make these. I have a Tormach mill, old Sheldon VS lathe, Mig, Tig Gas welding gear so am flexible whether it's machined or welded up. Obviously the triangular "hole" is the challenging part!

    Thanks!
    You may only view thumbnails in this gallery. This gallery has 2 photos.

  • #2
    Rotary broach hole, turn to size, doesn’t look hard but they never do!
    Mark

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    • #3
      Most important question is unanswered as usual. How much are you likely to pay for what you require?

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      • #4
        The triangular hole is going to be a challenge.
        If if you had EDM capabilities then it would be easy.
        Without having any other options I guess I would just reduce the size of the tangs to fit that little adapter.

        JL.....

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        • #5
          I presume the triangular hole is also tapered as file tangs customarily are, so that eliminates the rotary broach. Length to diameter ratio might have been a problem anyway.

          Some holders I've made by silver brazing up parts and turning afterwards. For instance, you could take a piece of larger round stock and machine a flat representing one of the internal flats and it can be tapered here too as required. Then machine the V for the other two sides with a dovetail cutter and the stock rotated as required from the preceding flat. Braze a suitable piece of flat on, then machine the remainder down as required. I prefer silver braze and one variety of Harris allow because it wicks nicely into all the cracks.

          If you've got one of those 5C indexers it would be relatively easy to set up the angles for the sides and slewing the fixture on the mill table to get the taper.
          .
          "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

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          • #6
            No EDM or rotary broaching capability. Although I've never seen a rotary broach under four sides?
            Agree on the 6 regular, I can just grind the ends down to fit. Not so easy to grind the 6XXslim up in size!
            I don't think the triangular hole is tapered, I thing it's square, the holder slides in and out along the taper of the file until it is snug.

            Edit: A guy on Youtube made a triangular broach out of a drill bit. Might be worth a shot.

            Double edit: I'm thinking easiest would be to cut a 1/4" slice out of 1/2" mild steel round bar, drill it to the minor diameter of a 6XX slim file then file it out with a 5XX or 4XX file (have both) then silver solder to a round bar shank of the correct diameter for the machine. Cheap n cheerful.
            Last edited by kenc; 11-21-2020, 11:15 PM.

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            • #7
              so this works without clamping?

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              • #8
                I've done lots of hex holes by forging and while the triangle is three sides "less round" than a hex, it might be worth a try as its fairly easy and doesn't need fancy equipment or tooling. Make a triangle, ideally of drill rod and hardened although doesn't have to be. heat the work up red hot, insert the former and gently and evenly tap work around the former. Pull the former out and turn down the OD so it all looks nice.

                The other idea is to build up the shape, i.e. silver solder three sides together then turn the OD





                Last edited by Mcgyver; 11-22-2020, 10:43 AM.
                in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

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                • #9
                  Thanks McGyver, I will try the triangular broach idea. I ahve lots of scraps of drill rod, don't remember if it's water or oil hardening, does it really matter for this application if I harden the wrong way?

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                  • #10
                    How long does the triangular hole have to be? And how precise?

                    If it is relatively short, and accuracy is not critical, I’d start with a round hole and file it.

                    Or, you could use a shaper. No shaper? Use your lathe or mill - obviously not under power - to act as one. Drill a hole first, then shape one corner at a time. With small holes, you’ll be limited by the flex of your cutter, so you won’t be able to cut an extremely long hole, but how much do you need?

                    Do you really need a triangular hole? A twelve point socket will grip a hex head pretty well, as an eight point socket will grip a square head. Will a hex socket hold the triangular file well enough? If so, you’ve got a wide choice of sizes.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kenc View Post
                      does it really matter for this application if I harden the wrong way?
                      you're welcome....probably doesn't matter, even mild steel will be a lot tougher than the red hot work piece. Annealed tool steel (drill rod) should be good enough, it'll be tougher than mild steel.

                      If you give a it a go, circle back...curious to know if it worked
                      in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

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                      • #12
                        Found som triangular sockets on fleabay
                        https://www.googleadservices.com/pag...BAgCECA&adurl=
                        possible?
                        Mark

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                        • #13
                          Ended up doing it the old fashioned way, drill a center hole in a 1/4" slice of 1/2" rod, laboriously file it to size then silver solder it to a 1/2" rod, clean up, done. Picture shows all finished except the regular taper rear, which is the sliver plus rod awaiting silver soldering. Click image for larger version

Name:	acme_file_hold.jpg
Views:	107
Size:	1.71 MB
ID:	1912423I have enough holders in the correct sizes to hold all four types now.

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                          • #14
                            you made a good job of it.
                            in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

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                            • #15
                              The tang side of the file is soft so, for dedicated files for the machine you could use round holes on the rods and braze the files in place with a torch.
                              Helder Ferreira
                              Setubal, Portugal

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