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  • #16
    Originally posted by david a View Post
    Hi All,
    I saw this youtube the other day and with the recent posts regarding Chinese lathes, I figured this Video may interest some folks.
    It seems that a "Quality" Chinese Machine tool company, Sumore, is trying out a direct marketing strategy in Australia and elsewhere.
    They stock a wharehouse in the country in question & then go for direct sales.
    This Video is by an Australian machinist, Rob, Posting as xynude, and he is getting a 7 X 12 lathe from these people for AU $799, total cost, delivered.
    That's about USD $609, a good price if it ain't junk, I think.
    According to Rob, Sumore has a good reputation & is not just selling rebranded junk from that one big factory.
    On 14 Dec he got the lathe in question & plans a detailed review of it this month.
    I'll be interested to see what he has to say.
    Here's the link.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42PbHw5q9rI&t=14s
    Quality and China don’t belong in the same sentence. Think about it. It’s from China so it should be branded POS.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by rickyb View Post
      Quality and China don’t belong in the same sentence for many consumer goods...........
      There, I fixed it for you!
      CNC machines only go through the motions.

      Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
      Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
      Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
      I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
      Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

      Comment


      • #18
        Having been to China and seeing first hand what they are doing to Hong Kong, I am serious when I suggest that the Chinese government is a combination of the worst communists and the Nazi's combined into one. I truly believe they are on purpose lowering the quality of their imports to the USA while saving the good stuff for themselves as an act of war.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by OaklandGB View Post
          The machine at low cost is likely a quality control reject from a Chinese factory .....
          Do you really think so? I expect that when this box is opened the lathe will be there with perfectly scored quality control sheets.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by rickyb View Post
            Quality and China don’t belong in the same sentence. Think about it. It’s from China so it should be branded POS.
            Not all Machines from China are POS,I have a made in China Mazak Clone 1988 18”x60” and 5000lbs.I think the quality is great,the Machine came out of a Tool&Die Shop that was making room for more CNC Machines.

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            • #21
              The chinese make very good stuff. They keep most of it.

              The folks who build the machines that are sold on their export market are people with a very good idea how to lower costs and make money. And they are doing just that.

              How much do you think it costs to machine the gears or pulleys for a multi-speed machine? Or for "back gears"? Do you think an "electronic speed control" costs more, or less than that?

              I got a hint for you, it costs a LOT less. Which is why you see them on a lot of export stuff. The chinese know that they will kill their market f they raise prices much. And they know very well how to sell a cheaper feature as a big improvement.... "One dial controls the full range of speeds". The fact that some serious disadvantages come along with that is not something that they are likely to make a point of.

              And those crazy "QCGBs", so-called .... the ones that are change gear machines set up to do sets of threads like 16, 32, and 64 tpi without changing any gears.... Looks OK at first glance, but then you see that it offers nothing to you in terms of usable QCGB action.... What it really does is allow them to hold prices, and still say it has a "partial QCGB".

              When it comes to quality control, we have taught the chinese that QC is an option we are unwilling to pay for. That suits the cost reduction process to a "t".

              CNC machines only go through the motions.

              Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
              Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
              Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
              I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
              Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

              Comment


              • #22
                chinese quality is inconsistent for most items, but you can get good deals if shopping around. i recently bought an iso30/er25 collet chuck for $16. i got a beautifull, shiny chuck with a nut that properly grabs the collet (not like so many others iv seen). i put it in my good spindle and using my good 16mm collet i saw 5µ tir on an endmill, even after having cutt up the shank for my quickchange. can that get any better?

                i bought two more yesterday, unfortunately the modification took me a while and they are $26 now. i was too slow, but now i know what manufacturer i can trust.
                Last edited by dian; 12-18-2020, 02:00 AM.

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                • #23
                  The actual unboxing and initial impressions and first chips has just been posted up roughly an hour before this post.

                  Yep, it's a 7x12. And the turning he did was very conservative. But looking at the video on a fairly big screen it does seem like it's reasonably cleanly made. And cleaner than some of the other 7x lathes I've seen. No mention of the type of headstock bearings or anything like that. And no indication of if it will be the same below the shiny surfaces. But like the better ones before it there's a tumbler gear setup and a low and high speed range gearing inside the headstock. The max speed on high range is 2500 RPM. The lower speed noted on the speed dial is 1100. So slightly more than 2:1 reduction.

                  (103) I review the Sumore 7 X 12 mini lathe model SP2102 - excellent - YouTube

                  EDIT- I went onto Amazon.ca to see if it's up for buying. Looks like it is... And with more details than xyndu included in his video.

                  SUMORE 7x12 inch Mini Metal Lathe Machine SP2102x300 with LED Working Light: Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement
                  Last edited by BCRider; 12-18-2020, 05:21 AM.
                  Chilliwack BC, Canada

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                  • #24
                    it sure looks rough on the picture. or is that the rust protection still on it?

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                    • #25
                      How many people writing a review for the lathe, which is likely their first lathe, know the difference between their butt and a rathole?

                      An old video, but one made by a guy with experience. chineese kwality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1eOQa1gYiU
                      Last edited by reggie_obe; 12-18-2020, 10:57 AM.

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                      • #26
                        I wasn't impressed by the video. Partly it's because it's a mini-lathe I admit. But man the chamfering on that tool holder.

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                        • #27
                          I've often wondered if Russian industry couldn't produce a better quality hobby-class lathe at the same price point as a Chinese 7" lathe.

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                          • #28
                            How many people writing a review for the lathe, which is likely their first lathe, know the difference between their butt and a rathole?
                            That video of Nicks is unbelievable! they must have just put scraping marks in for the look.

                            The problem in my opinion has always been the consumer. There were Myfords and Maximats as benchtop machines or say a Standard Modern as a small engine that the home shop guy could buy. They were made well, but the cost of making them well meant they cost 1/2 - 1x what car does. The consumer flocked to the low cost alternative and they all went belly up....however as you point out, the consumer never really understood what made a lathe a quality lathe. Fit and bearing of the sliding surfaces being one of the most important.

                            These made in China machines are partially lower cost because of the lower cost labour there, but far more so because of how they are made and omission of things like expensive quality bearings, well fit slide bearings, etc. They could make them like a high quality brand, but as you point out, the beginner hasn't a clue and just goes on price. Quality wouldn't sell.

                            For that matter, its not years that gives one the voice of experience in this. Its taking them apart, see first hand the problems, then printing and scraping to correct them that really brings home the differences. At least that's what I found, the penny drops when you've done this.

                            As part of the series I did on scraping I did a mini mill x/y arrangement; really just to include an example of dovetail scraping. Prior to reworking them, the machined castings were abysmal. Surfaces did not bear or fit properly - how could they possible work well? There'd be long faces on the proud new owners of these machines if they dropped by with the castings to check them out of reference flats and blue. SM otoh scraped the carriage into the ground ways on every lathe...up until the doors closed; this takes lots of time and skill regardless of the labour rate.

                            The good news is you can make a poorly fitting machine near perfect by scraping, but imo it would be a better use of time to do so with a American or European made better quality candidate
                            Last edited by Mcgyver; 12-18-2020, 11:40 AM.
                            in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post

                              That video of Nicks is unbelievable! they must have just put scraping marks in for the look.

                              T..................
                              I have seen american-made machines with fits just as bad as that.

                              Of course, they were 60-70 years old, and well-worn. And the fits were the worn surface of one against the freshly scraped and aligned surface of the mating part........
                              CNC machines only go through the motions.

                              Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                              Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                              Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                              I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                              Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Chinese are quite capable of high and ultra high quality machining. Their industries target their markets. The Sany excavators are mainly sold inside China but they are now trying to expand into other countries. Their stated goal is to price them so they can make a market entry, and defeat others such as the Korean excavators. Sany's factory is producing one completed excavator every 10 minutes in a state of the art factory. Raw steel plate to finished, tested and out the door. Laborers have a relatively minor role, mostly loading raw materials into jigs, and inspection. With 1.4 billion people, any workers not happy, or not producing the quality or quantity specified by management, and in the allotted time, are simply replaced and they all know it. Lunches are in house, and timed.

                                Remember, that Chinese industry is one thing, and their political structure is quite another thing altogether. One feeds off the other to the general grief of their trading partners, competitors, and a number of end customers. Yet the pricing attracts so many, that the relative "VALUE" of a Chinese product vs one produced in US or other nearby producers is lost.

                                A true life example, one of my relatives works for a small manufacturer of an automotive product. Designed and engineered by a US engineer, for a US company, for assembly in the US plant, the parts were sourced out of China because as everyone knows, it is cheaper there right? A certain part was not delivered on time and stopped production of one product line. The totally frustrated customer service guy checked around locally, and found a US manufacturer, literally 2.9 miles away who produced the parts in 2 days for a cost only slightly higher than the non existent Chinese part. Product is back in production.

                                Cheap doesn't equate to value. I think this has been clearly demonstrated in the machinery market we have been discussing here.
                                S E Michigan

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