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Maybe a better Chinese Bench lathe?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by BCRider View Post
    Reggie and Mcguyver. I don't have any personal contact with THAT particular lathe. And I didn't look up any reviews of it. Perhaps I messed the question up by using an actual example. Let's forget about this Heavy 10 case and think more generically.

    The point I was trying to make was asking who as a purely hobby focused person would pay roughly 50% more if they knew that they were buying a better made machine tool? Would they do so or would the lower cost more roughly made machine that on the outside looks just as good lure them in? It would appear that the market answered that some time ago. Which is why we are where we are now.
    How does this purely hobby focused person, know that they are buying a better machine? Because the seller says so, .....get more miles per gallon from SHRILL gasoline with additive XT4?
    Are they relying on brand name recognition? Do reviews from purchasers of the machine who have used it, measured fit and finish bear out the seller's claims?

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    • #62
      Not a lathe, but a mill. Story is simple, some years ago the remains of an Atlas Horizontal Mill came up for sale at our club. A beginner, with little money bought it for $35 and I went over it for him, suggesting it would be one step better than a vertical slide. Fast forward two years ago, I bought a complete , running one for $ 1000, set it up, did a few repairs and despite it being well worn got some good work out of it.
      Even more recently I found another for sale,a half days drive away. It looked better, bought it for $ 1300. Again did a few repairs,apparently one of its owners had lacked an oil can, and the back gearing needed attention,but found the rest of it
      it MUCH better. Added Digital readout, electric drive to the table instead of the gear drive and next she will get a variable speed motor drive. Adapted an EMCO vertical head to give vertical mill capabilities when desired.
      You may ask why do I need 2, well we spend summer at our cottage and I have a shop there too.
      IF I could buy a benchtop Horizontal Mill , backgeared down to 50 rpm,with vertical capability, power feeds,digital readouts,electronic variable speeds from a reputable supplier I would happily pay $ 5000 or more, thats about how much blood sweat, tears time and cash I reckon I have put into the one in my shop.
      But I have not seen anything remotely like that.
      Some of us are willing to spend heavily to get what we want, but often we find that what we feel we need is not being made and we resort to rebuilding, at virtually any cost, second hand equipment which fills our desires.
      Regards David Powell.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by reggie_obe View Post

        How does this purely hobby focused person, know that they are buying a better machine? Because the seller says so, .....get more miles per gallon from SHRILL gasoline with additive XT4?
        Are they relying on brand name recognition? Do reviews from purchasers of the machine who have used it, measured fit and finish bear out the seller's claims?
        These days, a "brand" means absolutely nothing. The corporate folks milk them dry by selling crap at high prices under what used to be a respected brand, and then throw it away.

        Reviews mean nothing. I see products that have two types of reviews.... One type 5 star, "would buy another", "worked super", etc, often in almost the same words for many of them. And then the others with 1 and 2 stars, saying "felt cheap", "attachment broke the second time I used it", "worked for a month and then quit", etc.

        That type review collection just proves that you can buy good reviews for an absolute POS. And that you cannot trust reviews, even ones that claim "verified purchaser".

        It really IS "buyer beware".
        CNC machines only go through the motions.

        Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
        Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
        Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
        I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
        Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by RB211 View Post
          It's 2020, you shouldn't have to turn knobs or levers, or even dick around with gears. Push a few buttons and cut any thread your heart desires. Anything else is so 1920's.
          Well put.
          It would appear that a majority of home shop users do not have a clue about operating a NC machine and many are intimidated by it. Many simply do not have any idea how simple it is to use a CNC machine today, a modern conversational control requires no knowledge of G Code nor CAM software.

          This is a threading cycle program on a Bridgeport conversational control, one simply enters the correct data in the correct fields. This of course assumes that one already knows how to use a lathe. In this case a 1 1/4"- 4 TPI Acme thread 10 3/8" long

          External/Internal ?
          Lead ?
          Thread Depth ?
          DOC per pass ? Just like manual machining.
          Clearance ?
          Spring passes ?
          Approach Angle ? Use this if you like advancing the compound at a angle
          Start Z ? Where the thread starts, these would be reversed if it were a LH thread
          End Z ? Where the thread ends
          Start Diameter ?
          End Diameter ? This would be a different value if it is a tapered thread

          Set up part and tool then press the go button, it can not be much easier. No code and no CAM, done at the machine.
          If it takes 15 minutes to run you can walk away and do something else like repaint the restored SB lathe.
          Last edited by Bented; 12-19-2020, 07:48 PM.

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          • #65
            Also.... How old is that lathe?
            I have had it a few years but the same lathe, CQ6230, is available right now on the Sumore website.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post

              Its not can't afford, its a choice. A choice to save for a long time, only have one machine tool etc. e.g. lots of home shop targeted quality lathes were made and bought in the past despite the expense. Low cost lathes came along and the market made achoice and flocked to them
              Maybe some can afford it but I for one couldn't, very limited budget for shop equipment and I doubt I'm alone in this. We buy the best we can afford not what others think we can or should buy.
              The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

              Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

              Southwestern Ontario. Canada

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by loose nut View Post

                Maybe some can afford it but I for one couldn't, very limited budget for shop equipment and I doubt I'm alone in this. We buy the best we can afford not what others think we can or should buy.
                Many questions asked are for information about what machine manufacturer or model is "good", often this is not followed by constraints such as cost or size.

                A query that better describes the more important criteria would be less open to wild flights of over the top suggestions.

                For instance.

                Recommend a lathe with the following features

                12" swing over the ways and 30" between centers
                220 VAC single phase, 5 HP
                Less then 2000 LBs
                50-3000 RPM spindle, VFD drive with back gear
                2" spindle bore
                QCGB with metric and inch threading
                Less the 80" long
                Hardened and ground or hand scraped ways
                Made in the USA if possible
                Taper attachment
                DRO
                Costs less then $5000.00

                No one would then suggest a machine costing more then the desired price, runaway thread averted.



                Comment


                • #68
                  A better Chinese lathe, here's what I would want-

                  -A four speed helical geared headstock with mechanical fwd/rev clutch for instant reversing of the spindle.

                  - 3HP motor and VFD combined with the headstock gearing to yield a speed range of 30-4500 rpm.

                  - A real Norton box for a threading range from 32 down to 2 tpi

                  - MT3 taper in the tailstock, MT5 in the headstock.

                  - D1 series camlock spindle with a 2" minimum bore.

                  - THK linear rails on both axis, forget cast slideways.

                  - DRO with scales built into the machine rather than mounted externally including the tailstock barrel.

                  -Taper attachment

                  - Constant speed facing

                  -All this in a 13/14 x 40 package

                  -
                  I just need one more tool,just one!

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    For the light use of a small lathe, I think rails work. That would solve a lot of problems with fit. I'm with you on everything except it needs to do imperial and metric. Definitely need the manual transmission to at least select the range.

                    Are the ABEC 11 skate bearings needed, or is downgrading to matched SKF p4's ok?
                    in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post
                      For the light use of a small lathe, I think rails work. That would solve a lot of problems with fit. I'm with you on everything except it needs to do imperial and metric. Definitely need the manual transmission to at least select the range.

                      Are the ABEC 11 skate bearings needed, or is downgrading to matched SKF p4's ok?
                      Lets do a leadscrew for each and ditch the stupid transposing gears then.
                      I just need one more tool,just one!

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by wierdscience View Post
                        A better Chinese lathe, here's what I would want-

                        -A four speed helical geared headstock with mechanical fwd/rev clutch for instant reversing of the spindle.

                        - 3HP motor and VFD combined with the headstock gearing to yield a speed range of 30-4500 rpm.

                        - A real Norton box for a threading range from 32 down to 2 tpi

                        - MT3 taper in the tailstock, MT5 in the headstock.

                        - D1 series camlock spindle with a 2" minimum bore.

                        - THK linear rails on both axis, forget cast slideways.

                        - DRO with scales built into the machine rather than mounted externally including the tailstock barrel.

                        -Taper attachment

                        - Constant speed facing

                        -All this in a 13/14 x 40 package

                        -
                        Why would you choose a useless range of thread pitches. .How about 1mm to 6mm , something useful at least.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by plunger View Post

                          Why would you choose a useless range of thread pitches. .How about 1mm to 6mm , something useful at least.
                          Because the lathe is being spec' ed out for it's largest market, the USA, not Latvia or Luxembourg.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by wierdscience View Post

                            Lets do a leadscrew for each and ditch the stupid transposing gears then.
                            I like that idea....was threading some metric stuff today and this leaving half nuts engaged is getting really old!. ELS, even better....you'd think it would be cheaper than cutting all the those gears
                            Last edited by Mcgyver; 12-20-2020, 02:45 PM.
                            in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Bented View Post

                              Costs less then $5000.00

                              No one would then suggest a machine costing more then the desired price, runaway thread averted.
                              At least 80% of the suggestions would be for more money

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by wierdscience View Post
                                A better Chinese lathe, here's what I would want-


                                - 3HP motor and VFD combined with the headstock gearing to yield a speed range of 30-4500 rpm.
                                - Constant speed facing
                                At what upper cost?
                                CSS implies a microprocessor and spindle encoder itself, why not go straight NC and eliminate the gearbox and thread dial, taper attachment and compound slide altogether?

                                You want to turn a ball, just turn a ball with no radius attachment required by simple circular interpolation.
                                You have essentially described a Haas toolroom lathe with lower HP, more spindle speed and a different spindle nose.

                                Linear ball rails
                                A taper attachment is not required
                                No gear box, infinite thread leads within the machines capabilities (you can not thread faster then the maximum machine rapid speed of 450 inches per minute)
                                A compound slide is not required
                                A thread dial is not required
                                A carriage stop is not required
                                A discrete DRO is not required
                                Divided and engraved handwheels are not required

                                https://www.haascnc.com/machines/lat...dels/tl-1.html
                                Last edited by Bented; 12-20-2020, 03:12 PM.

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