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  • #76
    Originally posted by reggie_obe View Post

    Because the lathe is being spec' ed out for it's largest market, the USA, not Latvia or Luxembourg.
    Do you think thats a bigger market than the world combined. Its only a matter of time before inches is obsolete. Wanna take a bet on that . Maybe not in your or my lifetime.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by wierdscience View Post
      A better Chinese lathe, here's what I would want-

      -A four speed helical geared headstock with mechanical fwd/rev clutch for instant reversing of the spindle.

      - 3HP motor and VFD combined with the headstock gearing to yield a speed range of 30-4500 rpm.

      - A real Norton box for a threading range from 32 down to 2 tpi

      - MT3 taper in the tailstock, MT5 in the headstock.

      - D1 series camlock spindle with a 2" minimum bore.

      - THK linear rails on both axis, forget cast slideways.

      - DRO with scales built into the machine rather than mounted externally including the tailstock barrel.

      -Taper attachment

      - Constant speed facing

      -All this in a 13/14 x 40 package

      -
      Remove the Norton gearbox and replace it with a servo, you'd have a kick ass easily convertible CNC lathe

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by RB211 View Post

        Remove the Norton gearbox and replace it with a servo, you'd have a kick ass easily convertible CNC lathe
        What will synchronize the servo driving the leedscrew with the spindle? Is there an off the shelf board/spindle encoder that can be sourced?

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Bented View Post

          Many questions asked are for information about what machine manufacturer or model is "good", often this is not followed by constraints such as cost or size.

          A query that better describes the more important criteria would be less open to wild flights of over the top suggestions.

          For instance.

          Recommend a lathe with the following features

          12" swing over the ways and 30" between centers
          220 VAC single phase, 5 HP
          Less then 2000 LBs
          50-3000 RPM spindle, VFD drive with back gear
          2" spindle bore
          QCGB with metric and inch threading
          Less the 80" long
          Hardened and ground or hand scraped ways
          Made in the USA if possible
          Taper attachment
          DRO
          Costs less then $5000.00

          No one would then suggest a machine costing more then the desired price, runaway thread averted.
          Pretty sure that doesn't exist though. :/

          Originally posted by wierdscience View Post
          A better Chinese lathe, here's what I would want-

          -A four speed helical geared headstock with mechanical fwd/rev clutch for instant reversing of the spindle.

          - 3HP motor and VFD combined with the headstock gearing to yield a speed range of 30-4500 rpm.

          - A real Norton box for a threading range from 32 down to 2 tpi

          - MT3 taper in the tailstock, MT5 in the headstock.

          - D1 series camlock spindle with a 2" minimum bore.

          - THK linear rails on both axis, forget cast slideways.

          - DRO with scales built into the machine rather than mounted externally including the tailstock barrel.

          -Taper attachment

          - Constant speed facing

          -All this in a 13/14 x 40 package
          A.) Clutches, while great, are all but gone.
          B.) Helical gears are all but gone too. Modern day spur gears are so quiet, why need them. It massively increases the size and cost of the headstock due to the requirement of dog clutches over sliding gears.
          C.) Dafuq do you need 4500 RPM for? I've never gone over 1500 RPM. Turning needles?
          D.) Big bore, but the rest of the lathe is fairly light duty?
          E.) MT5 in the headstock with a 2" bore. Mhm. Might want to check that math. 'Twould be awfully rattly in there.

          Originally posted by wierdscience View Post

          Lets do a leadscrew for each and ditch the stupid transposing gears then.
          Transposing gears aren't so bad when they're in the gearbox and you can just flip a lever like dad's Lagun 1440.

          Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post

          I like that idea....was threading some metric stuff today and this leaving half nuts engaged is getting really old!. ELS, even better....you'd think it would be cheaper than cutting all the those gears
          Or a leadscrew reverse. Those work superb for metric threads. Those are gone as well, and they aren't going to be found on a Chinese bench lathe.
          21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
          1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by reggie_obe View Post

            What will synchronize the servo driving the leedscrew with the spindle? Is there an off the shelf board/spindle encoder that can be sourced?
            DIY electronic lead screws are an amateur level project and there are several examples on line. There are a few kitsets available too.

            Here is one you can buy from Germany https://www.rocketronics.de/en/els/

            Here is a project https://create.arduino.cc/projecthub...d-screw-52a9c5
            Last edited by The Artful Bodger; 12-20-2020, 03:47 PM.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post

              ....was threading some metric stuff today and this leaving half nuts engaged is getting really old!.
              Use the threading dial on your metric lathe.
              Last edited by The Artful Bodger; 12-20-2020, 03:55 PM.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by The Metal Butcher View Post

                A.) Clutches, while great, are all but gone.
                B.) Helical gears are all but gone too. Modern day spur gears are so quiet, why need them. It massively increases the size and cost of the headstock due to the requirement of dog clutches over sliding gears.
                C.) Dafuq do you need 4500 RPM for? I've never gone over 1500 RPM. Turning needles?
                D.) Big bore, but the rest of the lathe is fairly light duty?
                E.) MT5 in the headstock with a 2" bore. Mhm. Might want to check that math. 'Twould be awfully rattly in there.

                Transposing gears aren't so bad when they're in the gearbox and you can just flip a lever like dad's Lagun 1440.

                Or a leadscrew reverse. Those work superb for metric threads. Those are gone as well, and they aren't going to be found on a Chinese bench lathe.
                Clutches started disappearing with the arrival of cheap.

                I like Helical, they transmit more torque for a given size and tooth count. Okay, two speed gearbox and we'll spin the motor faster.

                Small drills and small parts, running carbide inserts too slow is a sin.

                Who said anything about light duty?🤨 Get rid of the Vee ways and dovetails and all the labor to produce them, and give us 600-700 more lbs of iron instead.

                Ya, you're right, ditch the MT taper and give us a 20c collet bore and draw tube.

                I got no problem with transposing gears, it's being stuck with one leadscrew or the other that sucks.

                Leadscrew reverse? The Chinese will build it if you want them to.


                I just need one more tool,just one!

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by reggie_obe View Post

                  YMMV. I didn't read a single post on the "other site", the SB sub-forum, which gave it the glowing praise you did. I believe one or more guys over there bought one and weren't thoroughly impressed by the features, fit or finish of a rebranded Taiwanese lathe that didn't resemble any SB of the past.
                  I was baffled by what those guys were expecting. Did they really think Grizz was going to spend the cash to keep the SB name and start producing lathes that were hopelessly obsolete? I mean a lot of people hold SB is some kind of mythical reverence, but by 1940 their lathe line was obsolete in design. And as far as selling a re-badged machine, that is precisely what SB had been doing for 20-30 years before they finally went broke.
                  I just need one more tool,just one!

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    At least one of the machines I listed has a leadscrew reverse.

                    Clutches? How do you run feeds in a reasonable manner without some form of clutch? (unless you use the threading feed, which sucks)

                    Who cares what the leadscrew is... as long as the machine can be easily set for any of the common metric or inch series threads? (no matter what the dictatorial purists say, inch threads will be needed into the future. There is too much stuff out there still using them.)

                    "Obsolete"? You can say that anything not CNC from the drawing board is "obsolete". That is not the same thing as "not needed" or "unusable". It just means that you will not find long rows of them in production facilities. Griz makes nothing that is not "obsolete" that way (or at least it is not shown).
                    Last edited by J Tiers; 12-20-2020, 07:24 PM.
                    CNC machines only go through the motions.

                    Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                    Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                    Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                    I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                    Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by loose nut View Post

                      Why aren't there manual machines made here, well industry quit using them and amateurs can't afford them so what else would happen.
                      I don't buy that argument, I've been hearing that same statement for the past 30 years and it hasn't panned out. Every year there are more vendors and a wider variety of manual machines on the market. CNC is fine, but the costs increase exponentially with size. Even Grizzly is getting into the racket, why even offer a lathe this size even special order, if there was no market for them in industry? These certainly aren't going to be found in most home shops.

                      https://www.grizzly.com/products/sou...9-bore/sb1066f

                      And there are more than a few vendors here that offer lathes that size from stock. Lagun and Summit for starters all feature machines in that size and bigger. CNC has taken over small parts production to an extent and the rest of small parts production has been outsourced by short sighted industry executives. But big parts and one off's are still mostly being done manual.

                      I just need one more tool,just one!

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by wierdscience View Post

                        Clutches started disappearing with the arrival of cheap.

                        I like Helical, they transmit more torque for a given size and tooth count. Okay, two speed gearbox and we'll spin the motor faster.

                        Small drills and small parts, running carbide inserts too slow is a sin.

                        Who said anything about light duty?🤨 Get rid of the Vee ways and dovetails and all the labor to produce them, and give us 600-700 more lbs of iron instead.

                        Ya, you're right, ditch the MT taper and give us a 20c collet bore and draw tube.

                        I got no problem with transposing gears, it's being stuck with one leadscrew or the other that sucks.

                        Leadscrew reverse? The Chinese will build it if you want them to.
                        MT3 is light. A lathe that size should have 4 at least for my purposes. TOS/Trens thinks that a 1340 should have a MT5 in the tailstock, and I agree. Not totally sold on linear rails. I don't see any appreciable wear in Vee ways under hobbyist use when cared for.

                        Leadscrew reverse. Instead of reversing the motor, you reverse just the gearbox and leadscrew while the spindle runs forward. You can set up repeatable auto-stops as well. Solves the problem of metric threading for anything but very long threads. I've got one on my Sidney I'll do a video on someday, but it only works kinda half-assedly due to the bed wear binding up the mechanism. Adam Booth has a video as well if you are unfamiliar.

                        Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                        At least one of the machines I listed has a leadscrew reverse.

                        Clutches? How do you run feeds in a reasonable manner without some form of clutch? (unless you use the threading feed, which sucks)

                        Who cares what the leadscrew is... as long as the machine can be easily set for any of the common metric or inch series threads? (no matter what the dictatorial purists say, inch threads will be needed into the future. There is too much stuff out there still using them.)

                        "Obsolete"? You can say that anything not CNC from the drawing board is "obsolete". That is not the same thing as "not needed" or "unusable". It just means that you will not find long rows of them in production facilities. Griz makes nothing that is not "obsolete" that way (or at least it is not shown).
                        Which one is that?

                        We're talking about spindle clutches here, Jerry. Powerfeed clutches are great and any lathe without them isn't a real lathe, IMO. But there are plenty of real lathes without spindle clutches, sadly.
                        21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
                        1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by The Metal Butcher View Post

                          Leadscrew reverse. Instead of reversing the motor, you reverse just the gearbox and leadscrew while the spindle runs forward. You can set up repeatable auto-stops as well. Solves the problem of metric threading for anything but very long threads. I've got one on my Sidney I'll do a video on someday, but it only works kinda half-assedly due to the bed wear binding up the mechanism. Adam Booth has a video as well if you are unfamiliar.
                          I know what leadscrew reverse is and have used a few machines with it. I was just saying that if you pay them, the Chinese would build it
                          I just need one more tool,just one!

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by The Metal Butcher View Post
                            .........


                            Which one is that?

                            We're talking about spindle clutches here, Jerry. Powerfeed clutches are great and any lathe without them isn't a real lathe, IMO. But there are plenty of real lathes without spindle clutches, sadly.
                            I suspected that, but assumed you knew why they existed. A spindle clutch is not even needed until you get to a size of machine with a several HP drive motor. A motor with a "number of starts per hour" limit on it, or of a size that the power company requires a soft start on, which is usually 5 HP and above. Those machines are also the size where you may need the motor for some auxiliary function if there is not a second motor to cover axis movements and jog functions etc.

                            As for the leadscrew reverse, I gave the list, look them up and check in the manual links if you want to, it's all I would do to answer the question. I already did enough looking up.

                            A "real lathe", despite the "mine is bigger than yours" Bubba types, is one that does what you need it to do to get the work you are doing done.
                            CNC machines only go through the motions.

                            Ideas expressed may be mine, or from anyone else in the universe.
                            Not responsible for clerical errors. Or those made by lay people either.
                            Number formats and units may be chosen at random depending on what day it is.
                            I reserve the right to use a number system with any integer base without prior notice.
                            Generalizations are understood to be "often" true, but not true in every case.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Moving my 10EE off the pallet today, forgot how damn heavy that thing is, it seams like it weighs 2x what it looks like it weighs. It's like the cast iron contains particles of a white dwarf.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by wierdscience View Post

                                I don't buy that argument, I've been hearing that same statement for the past 30 years and it hasn't panned out. Every year there are more vendors and a wider variety of manual machines on the market. CNC is fine, but the costs increase exponentially with size. Even Grizzly is getting into the racket, why even offer a lathe this size even special order, if there was no market for them in industry? These certainly aren't going to be found in most home shops.

                                https://www.grizzly.com/products/sou...9-bore/sb1066f

                                And there are more than a few vendors here that offer lathes that size from stock. Lagun and Summit for starters all feature machines in that size and bigger. CNC has taken over small parts production to an extent and the rest of small parts production has been outsourced by short sighted industry executives. But big parts and one off's are still mostly being done manual.
                                I was referring to quality made 'Merican iron not cheaper off shore stuff. IE: Chinese stuff.
                                The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

                                Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

                                Southwestern Ontario. Canada

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