Maybe a better Chinese Bench lathe?

[MattiJ]

Hi All,
I saw this youtube the other day and with the recent posts regarding Chinese lathes, I figured this Video may interest some folks.
It seems that a "Quality" Chinese Machine tool company, Sumore, is trying out a direct marketing strategy in Australia and elsewhere.
They stock a wharehouse in the country in question & then go for direct sales.
This Video is by an Australian machinist, Rob, Posting as xynude, and he is getting a 7 X 12 lathe from these people for AU $799, total cost, delivered.
That's about USD $609, a good price if it ain't junk, I think.
According to Rob, Sumore has a good reputation & is not just selling rebranded junk from that one big factory.
On 14 Dec he got the lathe in question & plans a detailed review of it this month.
I'll be interested to see what he has to say.
Here's the link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42PbHw5q9rI&t=14s

One fella was importing Sumore machines here in Finland couple of years ago directly from Sumore factory. Prices were REALLY good compared to other chinese offerings but quality was pretty much the same crap as others. Maybe not the rock bottom lowest quality but still nothing amazing.

[Salvin]

A small budget wood lathe from a reputable brand should always be preferred than some unknown Chinese company in my opinion.

[JRouche]

To be quite honest, and the rate of cancer pilots have is discouraging

Yeah, fly too close too close to the Sun.

For too long and Solar Radiation will get you. JR

[JRouche]

Milltronics uses Yaskawa servos and vfds but they make their own controls which are pretty nice. The font panel talks the the small IO panel in the control box via fiber optics.

I think, I am not sure. I think I have two new 5hp units from them.

I wanted one for my Hardinge horizontal mill (AKA Lathe). So that worked out so well someone was able to give me one more. She is still new in box. Other one drives the Hardinge.

Then you think?

Doesnt this guy have a monarch (moth) that needs 220/3ph?

No.

Doesnt this guy have a Bridgeport CNC mill, 3 phase!!
Yes, Thanks Art. I made a rotary after talking with him. Probally 24 years ago.

What about that funky Emco CNC lathe that has a 345volt transformer (or there about) otherwise it wont run.

It likes a solid power source. So yo get a 15hp phase converter to run a three inch, 4hp, DC lathe. Between centers is just about 15 inches. I guess. Is that why they called it the 120?

So yeah. The VFDs from them are the chit JR

[macona]

Milltronics is another, but to be honest they machine there own castings that come from offshore and use Japanese electronics.

Milltronics uses Yaskawa servos and vfds but they make their own controls which are pretty nice. The font panel talks the the small IO panel in the control box via fiber optics.

[J Tiers]

The relatoon to wages is that when such things are provided by the employer (or even in some other manner), wages can go down because that portion of wages paid on account of those can be taken away (and it is). Of course, now in the states, some employers have started charging for them against wages directly, but not raising wages to pay for it. And unions, where there are any, do not agree to that.

You make a mistake by simply counting dollars and euros.

The real wage must be adjusted for the "cost of living", because more dollars /euros are of no use when the cost of living exceeds the increase. That is one reason I do not live on the east or west coast... I could get 50% more salary, but at the cost of 100% higher cost of living AND a 2 hour each way daily commute just to get the costs of house, etc down to that point.

[dian]

A major factor for comparing wages in the US versus those in most other "developed" nations is universal health insurance, as well as other perks like 30 days paid vacation, education, maternity leave, and child care. Those benefits can easily be valued at $10,000-$20,000 per year, or $5 to $10/hour. Also, the infrastructure is such that one can rely on good public transportation, and it may be possible to live safely, inexpensively, and comfortably in modest accommodations in cities close to jobs.

you are talking about taxes and public expense quota. i dont see much relation to wages.

but consider this: prices in (the richer) european counties can be 2-3 times the u.s. level. its easy to check, even online (go and shop for a welder). if people were not be making more money, they would not be able to pay them. end of story. (real wages, on the other hand, might very well be higher in the states.)

as to italy, it doesnt make sence to source any products from there, neither from spain. when im sick of the price level here i buy stuff from the states (even sand paper), just for the hell of it, because after shipping, customs and vat the difference shrinks considerably.

[RB211]

What I have heard, being in the same spot as some great ATCs is its about time.

Time meaning the pay for you to sleep in the seat while the plane heads to where-ever.
No Souls cept yer own. Not like you have a 380 and 700 folks on board. Nap now? lol

The Monkey will take your job, surprised there isn't talk from the Union about this?

All the heavy, windowless cargo that you move.

You might be out of a job soon. Fly people instead? JR

To be quite honest, no human should be subject to constantly flying through 10 to 12 time zones every few days, sitting inside a metal tube for 14 hours with 20% humidity. It is absolute hell on my body and the rate of cancer pilots have is discouraging to say the least. The aviation segment I am in thrives on good deals on used old airplanes. Fed Ex and UPS will get pilotless aircraft before anyone else, my company will be one of the last. The self driving car and more importantly, the public acceptance of the technology will determine when passenger airlines will adopt the tech. Aviation is one of the last holdouts, if not the last holdout of a business sector that pays employees well and is heavily reliant on labor. Railroads back in the steam locomotive days is the last segment I can think of that rivals the airlines. It's inevitable, and most pilots I work with tell their own kids that they most likely won't make it to retirement if they decide to be a pilot.

[JRouche]

Pilots make decent money because per flight can bring in 100,000 to over 1 million in profits for cargo, .

What I have heard, being in the same spot as some great ATCs is its about time.

Time meaning the pay for you to sleep in the seat while the plane heads to where-ever.
No Souls cept yer own. Not like you have a 380 and 700 folks on board. Nap now? lol

The Monkey will take your job, surprised there isn't talk from the Union about this?

All the heavy, windowless cargo that you move.

You might be out of a job soon. Fly people instead? JR

[JRouche]

[QUOTE=dian;n1917969]the official statistics are often missleading, e.g. showing higher "average" wages for the u.s than germany or even switzerland, italy usually beeing far behind. it depends on what you are looking atWhen finished he proudly showed it to everyone and throughout the day/QUOTE]

Yeah, Apples and Oranges.

The United States of American has a large population compared to European Countries.

Wages? You said "average". That word does not translate boarders so well.

When you gather up 370,000,000 people that we have, come and have lunch.

I am a good cook. JR

[PStechPaul]

A major factor for comparing wages in the US versus those in most other "developed" nations is universal health insurance, as well as other perks like 30 days paid vacation, education, maternity leave, and child care. Those benefits can easily be valued at $10,000-$20,000 per year, or $5 to $10/hour. Also, the infrastructure is such that one can rely on good public transportation, and it may be possible to live safely, inexpensively, and comfortably in modest accommodations in cities close to jobs.

[RB211]

Pilots make decent money because per flight can bring in 100,000 to over 1 million in profits for cargo, so the actual pilot pay is just a tiny percentage. It's impossible for machinists or most jobs to say they can do the same per shift. The amount of parts you make in an 8 hour shift, unless it is aerospace work, can't allow for high margins on a consistent basis.
It's all about a skillset in a market that allows for high pay.
With this said, I have a hard time suggesting to anybody they should be a pilot, the profession is incredibly hard to get started in and ripe with risks that will end your career sooner than expected, leaving you with no valuable skills outside of aviation. My generation is also the last that can have a full career before A.I. takes over.
I have a much easier time suggesting people become the owner of a business, be it a machine shop or what ever. Don't ever settle on being the worker bee.

[wierdscience]

really? The average machinist wage in Italy is less than I pay welder/fitters. 15 euros, equivalent to $18 US. In northern Italy its a lot less. I had occasion two years ago to work on a project where it was cheaper to make stuff there (largish fabrications) and ship vs making it here, all because of the lower labour rate.

I recently worked with a former machinist from Germany. He is a field tech for a European robotics firm. His story mirrors that, he said as a machinist he made enough money along with his wife working that they could live comfortably, but very little else. A big car or home repair bill would have them scraping bottom for months (sound familiar?) and if they wanted children and for his wife to stay home the first few years it was impossible. He got the opportunity to add control and instrumentation to his skill set and hired on with his current company which effectively doubled his wages.

Where I'm at, welders and fitters average a higher hourly wage than do machinists. But that's mainly due to greater demand and the physical demands being higher as well. Fitting and welding in 85-95*F heat 6 months out of the year takes years off a person's life it seems.

[Mcgyver]

i dont know about that. manual leathes are made in e.g. germany, italy, switzerland, where you easily have double u.s. wages.

really? The average machinist wage in Italy is less than I pay welder/fitters. 15 euros, equivalent to $18 US. In northern Italy its a lot less. I had occasion two years ago to work on a project where it was cheaper to make stuff there (largish fabrications) and ship vs making it here, all because of the lower labour rate.

I do agree when you make a quality product wage rates aren't the only or biggest cost driver - as noted earlier, the cheap China lathes aren't that cheap just because of lower labour costs. If that were the case there'd be little question as to what was the best choice. otoh, when you have branded quality project people want, the labour rate matters less - e.g. the success the German manufacturing mittelstand,

Still, show me data on where the avg German machinist is double that in the US. Most sources I find put age German machinist wages under 20 Euros an hour, which is 23-25 US$. Seems pretty close to US wages, maybe slightly more than Canadian. Here a machinist wage might be low $20's to mid 30's per hour depending on ability

[dian]

the official statistics are often missleading, e.g. showing higher "average" wages for the u.s than germany or even switzerland, italy usually beeing far behind. it depends on what you are looking at. first of all every country has its own method of collecting data. second the arithmetic average can be very missleading. while in italy very many people statistically are poor, because they lead a self-sufficient way of live, the wages in industrial regions match those in germany. third, "grey economy" is present in very different proportion in different countries. i could go on and on.

edit: i would even say that official statistics are always missleading and even that statistics in general are always missleading. and giving an example: official inflation has been around zero in switzerland for decades now. however everybody knows that prices double at least every 10 years. (bread is over $5 per pound now.)