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O/T: Lockheed, Martin Marietta, Linkbelt. Did some work for them. Anyone else?

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  • JRouche
    replied
    Originally posted by Duckfarmer27 View Post

    Well, sort of. Loral was made up of a whole laundry list of companies. Lockheed bought most of Loral in 1996. The leftover pieces became the start of L3, which grew using much the same model Bernard Schwatz did. Schwarz was chairman of Loral when they sold out, he had built the company. Frank Lanza was the president, and formed L3. Schwarz kept Globalstar Communications, which was going to do a low earth orbit network - company went bust. I got to ride that roller coaster with the plant where I worked being bought by first Loral and then LM. L3 merged with Harris in 2019 - they are now something like the 9th largest defense contractor..

    Love the story. Geeze!! Knee deep huh?

    Loral, martin, lockheed, FMC, linkbelt, marietta, These folks pretty much got absorbed. The splinter parts not so much.

    Some one said Launcher. FMC and Linkbelt would never build one, a platform.

    I only worked with the paperwork with those folks 80-81. And thats all JR
    Last edited by JRouche; 12-31-2020, 03:00 AM.

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  • Duckfarmer27
    replied
    Originally posted by Bob La Londe View Post
    Just back in the 90s. I think Loral got out of the defense business in 1996, but they still exist as a communications company.

    Wikipedia
    Well, sort of. Loral was made up of a whole laundry list of companies. Lockheed bought most of Loral in 1996. The leftover pieces became the start of L3, which grew using much the same model Bernard Schwatz did. Schwarz was chairman of Loral when they sold out, he had built the company. Frank Lanza was the president, and formed L3. Schwarz kept Globalstar Communications, which was going to do a low earth orbit network - company went bust. I got to ride that roller coaster with the plant where I worked being bought by first Loral and then LM. L3 merged with Harris in 2019 - they are now something like the 9th largest defense contractor..

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  • Bob La Londe
    replied
    Just back in the 90s. I think Loral got out of the defense business in 1996, but they still exist as a communications company.

    Wikipedia
    In 1996 Loral sold its defense electronics and system integration businesses to Lockheed Martin;

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  • JRouche
    replied
    Originally posted by Bob La Londe View Post
    I did mention I supplied some material for Lockheed & Loral. Actually supplied material and equipment
    Before my time Mr La Londe.

    Now my Dad (Died,1978) worked for Rockwell and another East Coast company. They would have used that stuff.

    Thanks... JR

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  • JRouche
    replied
    [QUOTE=Bob La Londe;n1918200& Loral [/QUOTE]

    Oh Bob. Then you have to bring these guys up. . Loral

    Thsts old school.. JR

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  • JRouche
    replied
    Originally posted by fjk View Post

    money didn’t go through the prime contractor.

    frank
    frank
    Thats very unusual. It doesnt and didnt work like that.. JR

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  • Bob La Londe
    replied
    I did mention I supplied some material for Lockheed & Loral. Actually supplied material and equipment and did some shop repairs. I don't recall their being any problem, but it was another one of those where somebody on the site asked me if I could help because they knew me. If there were any delays I am sure they told me up front what the delays would be. Most government agencies and government subs I did work for or sold material to would tell me up front about expected timelines. I could adjust accordingly. They wanted me to do the work or provide the material, and they didn't want to poison a relationship. If you don't have a personal connection that may not be the case.

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  • fjk
    replied
    Originally posted by JRouche View Post
    See. That is the problem.

    I asked if anyone worked for linkbelt, martin or lockheed...

    You folks went way off tangent.

    The Question is in the header.. JR

    Lockheed, Martin Marietta, Linkbelt. Did some work for them. Anyone else?


    Edit: Except for Pete. He answered my Q?
    I worked at a small company that did a joint project with one of the firms you mentioned. It does not matter which one. Things started to go bad when they insisted that we “adjust” our proposed numbers in a way that would have earned us an extended period clothed on orange jump suits as guests of the government.

    We won the contract

    then it was two years of weekly reamings from the
    prime contractor about how we should do things not in the contract, charge less money than we actually spent, and so on. Yet more opportunities to get a nifty orange jumpsuit...

    payment was not an issue since the government paid the contractors & subcontractors directly, the money didn’t go through the prime contractor.

    frank

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  • JRouche
    replied
    See. That is the problem.

    I asked if anyone worked for linkbelt, martin or lockheed...

    You folks went way off tangent.

    The Question is in the header.. JR

    Lockheed, Martin Marietta, Linkbelt. Did some work for them. Anyone else?


    Edit: Except for Pete. He answered my Q?
    Last edited by JRouche; 12-25-2020, 09:42 PM.

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  • JRouche
    replied
    Originally posted by Bob La Londe View Post

    I was on the US contractor bidlist for a long time.

    Mostly all I ever got from that was people calling me up and wanting to charge me to tell me how to be a government contractor. One of the other thing I would get is weird calls for stock orders of things I never heard of.\\\\\\\\\

    Once in a while I'd get calls from another government contractor asking me to write the spec for a job they didn't know how to write with the impression that if I kissed their ass, asked if they wanted more, and did it all for free I might actually get to bid that portion with them. It was all bull**** of course. Every government job I ever got was because somebody who knew me called me up and told me they wanted me to bid a job. A couple times I was told to update my contractor listing so I could bid a job.

    Yeah, thats what I have seen. JR//////

    When I first started doing GSA stuff every job was invoiced from a purchase order and took about 60 days to pay (if it was direct for the government), then they updated around 2000-05ish and started paying PO invoices faster, and then a few years later went to credit card for everything. I would get paid in a few days from getting a signoff of completion. Sometimes the same day somebody would call me with a credit card number. The last couple jobs I did for the Army they told me I could do progressive billing, but I was done so much faster than they expected that it didn't matter.

    Worst pay time I ever had was as a sub for a sub on a network cabling job for McDonald Douglas. Just about broke me in 1995. They just refused to even respond to billing, demand, and late notices for months and months (I did all the work and provided all the materials). Finally we sent a letter to the Commandant of the Marine Corps informing him of our intent to file a lien on his marine base. 3 days later the primary sub received a FedEx envelope with payment in full. He was in my office the same day with a check. I did a lot of work for that guy over the years, but neither of us ever did another job for the Marine Corps or for McDonald Douglas. LOL. Army, Airforce, Justice, misc GSA, yes. McDonald Douglas. NOPE! I even provided some materials for Lockheed and later Loral on an aerostat site (because somebody I knew called me.)


    Yes. Not an answer to my question though.

    No big deal cause that story was very nice, Thank you Sir.. JR

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  • Bob La Londe
    replied
    Originally posted by 754 View Post
    I am guessing here, that nobody was a fan of companies switching to just in time inventory amounts..
    that was a PITA..
    As a contractor I learned to say no to a lot of things and the last 10 years I only took as much work as I could do by myself. I would tell customers "if you can wait three months sure, but if in 3 months somebody else is first with cash their job would get done first." Now as a specialty machinist I always run 2-4 weeks lead time on ready to cut designs I own, and 2-4 months (sometimes 6) on custom work with a published first paid first made policy. I do have a Line Jumping Super Pass like Disney Land and like Disney its comes at a premium. One million dollars in advance and does not cover the cost of the project. Its good for one project.

    I get a lot of guys go elsewhere, and that's okay. I really do not want to have years of work backed up.

    Me a just in time vendor? Yeah, I don't (insert-expletive-here_ing) think so!
    Last edited by Bob La Londe; 12-22-2020, 01:08 PM.

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  • 754
    replied
    I am guessing here, that nobody was a fan of companies switching to just in time inventory amounts..
    that was a PITA..



    Leave a comment:


  • Bob La Londe
    replied
    Originally posted by TGTool View Post

    It can be a kind of an organizational Aikido, using their assault energy to throw them. The guy writing checks for payables has his orders for not paying til 90 days which he dutifully does. There's no corporate policy for skipping penalties due so he's perfectly happy to do that.
    Yep, got some of that too. I usually had the courtesy to call the local manager and let him know that after multiple late notices and accumulated penalties they had past due balances exceeding the cancellation term on the contract for their alarm system monitoring, service contract, phone system lease, etc. Some would say, "its only penalties," and "I would say our contract says we don't offer net terms and the penalties are detailed in the contract. You owe it and its so far past due we will be by to pick up our equipment tomorrow." Some (very few) cancelled service which was ok with me. Some suddenly became the fastest paying customers on my RMR roster. Unless they went out of business I got paid what they owed me either way. Its amazing how fast a dead beat Fortune rated company pays when you let them know you are filing a lien on their multi million dollar facility. (Sometimes that's the first time they respond to your demand for payment.)

    Had a big outfit (a maquiladora) with about a 1/4 square mile finishing and shipping facility stateside try to stiff us on the final payment on a big video and access control job. We were ignored for months until I sent them a fax letting them know I was going over to the court house the next day to file a lien. I got a call within minutes from the plant manager with all kinds of excuses, and when he finished talking I said, "I would suggest you have that final payment sent Fed-Ex with AM delivery. I'm planning to go over to the courthouse at lunch time." 10:30 the next day FedEx walked in my door with a check. On a job that size there are always little things that need tweaking and adjusting. We answered every service call promptly and took care of it until our warranty ran out. Then when they called I told them how much the advance deposit was for a service call.

    My contracts also included a clause that says the contract itself serves as notice of intent to file a lien in the event of nonpayment or late payment. I also added a line above the signature that said, "By signing I agree to all terms and conditions on the reverse side of this agreement."

    I personally really struggled with contract updates over the years. I hate long contracts. Addendums for materials and labor description sure, but the contract itself in my opinion should fit on one page. I manage keep it to one legal size sheet, but it was a struggle as I added more and more CYA clauses over the years. Now when people send me NDAs that are more than a couple pages long I don't even read them. I just throw them away. Most are more coached in terms to restrict trade than be a true nondisclosure anyway. Almost none include a morals clause, and that's a deal breaker for me. No morals clause no signature.

    Story Time:

    ASIDE: I knew that maquiladora was going to be a problem from the start. We had a big meeting with a bunch of managers where the plant manager made a big show of signing the contract and telling me to start ordering parts. Two weeks later he called when I had not shown up on their site, and I told him the deposit payment had not arrived yet. Five days later he called again saying the check was on the way I should start ordering parts. 5-6 days later he called and complained that I said the job could be done in about three weeks and I had not even started yet. I just said, "We haven't received the deposit check yet." The next day when I received the check Fed-Ex I ordered all the parts for the job.

    When we had all the parts, cable wire, etc on hand I went down to Home depot and purchased a bunch of steel job boxes. Then we made a big show of showing up on their site with two pickup trucks and a trailer full of materials and asked for a secure area to store equipment on site. They gave use an unused office and the key to the office. We paraded all those big job boxes in, chained them together, padlocked everything, and left. When I got back to the office I invoiced them for the progressive payment for putting the equipment on site.

    About tens day later I got a call. The manager was whining at me and commented on our big show of delivering all the materials and then not coming back. I just said, "You haven't made the progressive payment." He said I should get started because the check was on the way. You'd think he would have learned I wasn't going to budge by now, but three days later he called me again asking when I was going to get started. I let him know the payment schedule was in the contract. "When you make the due payment we will get started." Yep. The next day a check arrived by FedEx.

    From the day the second check arrived until we walked them through the systems was just over 2 weeks.

    I halfway expected him to get mad and cancel at some point, but I knew I couldn't afford to be on the hook for a job that size.
    Last edited by Bob La Londe; 12-20-2020, 05:49 PM.

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  • TGTool
    replied
    [QUOTE=Duckfarmer27;n1916809}
    <snip>
    . Only smart thing to do, if you have to deal with them, is jack up the price to compensate for the pain level. Many are stupid enough to pay.

    [/QUOTE]

    It can be a kind of an organizational Aikido, using their assault energy to throw them. The guy writing checks for payables has his orders for not paying til 90 days which he dutifully does. There's no corporate policy for skipping penalties due so he's perfectly happy to do that.
    Last edited by TGTool; 12-20-2020, 04:00 PM.

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  • Duckfarmer27
    replied
    I was a manager from one of the initially listed companies, long time retired. They got real stupid in the way they treated vendors over the years. I had a vendor who supplied LP gas for our tow tug, Local guy in a small town with our large facility. Company owed him something like $150 - unknown to us - and was over 90 days late. We were just about out of gas. Local guy says he's tired of fronting such a huge company so nor more gas. Did not blame him at all. So I start calling to get this guy paid. Several calls - and multiple states - later I finally discover the czar who can decide to pay 'before we usually do'. The clown was a director level. Not very sympathetic to me - until I tell him I will not be able to ship a $30 million dollar aircraft/system because I can't tow the damn thing out to the flight line. Bill got paid that day.

    I've been a small business owner as well as military and manager for a couple of the largest corporations in our country. Was raised to pay my bills - personal or company - on time. The greedy people running many places these days will be the death of our economy if things don't change. But then I'm just an old curmudgeon. Only smart thing to do, if you have to deal with them, is jack up the price to compensate for the pain level. Many are stupid enough to pay.

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