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Removing 5C adapter from Cam-Lock spindle

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  • #16
    Originally posted by lakeside53 View Post
    ...I'd like handwheel closer type also.. hmmm....
    We had a Pratt style handwheel closer chuck on a previous lathe (Graziano SAG14) but in a moment of
    stupidity we sold the lathe and let the closer go with it. Dumb move. Wish I had the chuck now sometimes.
    Wouldn't use it a lot but it would be very handy. Not likely to see another one, though, those things are
    about 2500 bucks new--last I looked anyway...

    Keith
    __________________________
    Just one project too many--that's what finally got him...

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    • #17
      If you are avoiding the knockout bar only because it seems like machine abuse, then I think you are looking for a fussy solution to a nonexistent problem. I've been using a knockout bar on my South Bend heavy ten for 15 years, as the manufacturer intended. It sometimes demands a rather quick flick, but the brass collar still shows no noticeable wear or peening. As to the spindle bearings, they are further protected by the heavy inertial mass of the spindle. In other words, nothing to worry about.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by The Metal Butcher View Post
        I don't want to rain on your parade, but have you checked your carriage clearance? Many modern lathes where the ways stop at the headstock really struggle to get up to the spindle nose. See here on dad's Lagun 1440:......
        I have the same issue. The ways stop before the head stock which is on its own bed mount points on the end of the bed. So although I'd like to have used an MT5 to 5C adapter I couldn't reach the work. So my shop made 5C chuck ended up being a thread on deal onto the nose of the spindle.

        Click image for larger version  Name:	P1020500.JPG Views:	0 Size:	99.5 KB ID:	1918615

        In this picture with the 5C chuck mounted to the threaded nose on my lathe you can see how with the tool just at the front of the collet how the carriage is just about to run off the end of the bed ways. The wipers in this case are just about to run off the ground areas of the bed. I set the length of the collet adapter's body so that this would be the case.

        Click image for larger version  Name:	P1020501.JPG Views:	0 Size:	103.6 KB ID:	1918614
        Chilliwack BC, Canada

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        • #19
          Thank you all for your responses. It would certainly be easier to just fab a handwheel collet draw system. I like the idea of being able to keep the machine running while loading/unloading - hence the desire to accommodate the lever closer. I am running the Summit on a static phase converter (I have yet to find a deal on a 10 hp idler, assuming I have enough amps for a 10 hp idler and the 7.4 hp lathe). Now, on just a static, when I engage the motor the fluorescent lights dim a bit for a second or so as the motor brings the spindle up to speed. I would rather keep the motor running rather than to shut down for each stock adjustment. FWIW, I rarely make more than a few of the same item - half a dozen is a fairly large qty for me. So the time savings of a lever closer over a hand wheel or a collet chuck is not the issue. My understanding is that a lever collet closer can be removed by simply pulling a pin in the linkage. To date I have at most 3 or 4 hours time using a lever collet closer (on an HVL-H, what a dream machine) and the closer was never removed from the lathe that I am aware of.

          Thirty five years ago I ran 8 gage wire from the house to the garage (in 1 inch conduit). Twenty six year old me could not foresee that I would have machine tools of this size/power in the future (actually even after I bought the lathe earlier this year I just assumed that it would have a 3, 4 or 5 hp motor - wasn't till after I had it home and opened up the motor access cover and using an inspection mirror and flashlight read that the motor was 5.5 kW, and muttered a few bad words). Twenty six year old me was squeezed on cash after buying the house and could not see that spending a few extra $ back then would have been an investment in the future or simply running larger dia conduit so that I could pull heavier gage wire in the future. Problem is that this house is now a rental and I can't pull a homeowner permit and I can't risk being seen trenching to upgrade my service. I also have no desire to have an electrical inspector inside my garage if I were to have an electrician upgrade my service. So I need to make do - and a collet closer is part of that solution.
          Metro Detroit

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          • #20
            Originally posted by lakeside53 View Post

            I'd like handwheel closer type also.. hmmm....
            Im not exactly sure what type of handwheel closer you are speaking of but the type I am thinking of I see no advantage over a lever closer.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by aribert View Post
              ... I am running the Summit on a static phase converter (I have yet to find a deal on a 10 hp idler, assuming I have enough amps for a 10 hp idler and the 7.4 hp lathe). Now, on just a static, when I engage the motor the fluorescent lights dim a bit for a second or so as the motor brings the spindle up to speed. I would rather keep the motor running rather than to shut down for each stock adjustment. .
              If you are power limited, how about disconnecting half the parallel windings in the motor?
              So your hp will be half (3.2hp?)...And get a 5hp motor as your rotary converter.
              Jerry is going to say it won't work, and magnetic hysteresis will make your dick fall off
              and there is too much iron in the motor...... But I think a 3hp lathe might work just
              fine for most things.

              -Doozer
              DZER

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by LKeithR View Post
                When I first found my current lathe; a very nice Chinese 13 x 40; it came with a 5C collet closer
                setup. The seller offered to remove it if I didn't want it and reduce the price by $900. I made a
                snap decision and told the seller to take it off--budget was pretty tight and I couldn't really afford
                the extra anyway.

                I've never regretted the decision. There have been virtually no situations where I really felt like I
                could have used it. A few years ago I bought myself a very nice little ER40 collet chuck from
                Arceurotrade and it has proven to be all I need in the way of a small diameter precision chuck.
                Carefully mounted on a D1-6 back plate it has almost zero runout. Changing parts is not quite as
                fast as a closer would be but for 8-12 parts or less (which seems to be about the quantity I end up
                using it for) it's just not an issue...
                I would have probably made the same decision especially if money was tight but a 5c collet setup can be a huge time saver.

                I have a 3 jaw for my lathe but it is pretty worn and only sees use with bored soft jaws so a 4 jaw stays on the machine most of the time. I can swap over to collets faster than I can dial in 2 parts. So anything over 1 part gets swapped to collets, something 1 part does.

                Have more than one square part to do? Collets are the way to go.

                I do agree that I could live without the collets setup if I had to.


                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Doozer View Post

                  If you are power limited, how about disconnecting half the parallel windings in the motor?
                  So your hp will be half (3.2hp?)...And get a 5hp motor as your rotary converter.
                  Jerry is going to say it won't work, and magnetic hysteresis will make your dick fall off
                  and there is too much iron in the motor...... But I think a 3hp lathe might work just
                  fine for most things.

                  -Doozer
                  I'm confident that 3 hp would be adequate. I need to do some studying (on how one goes about disconnecting half the windings).

                  BTW, this is a two speed motor and I am running it in high speed - guess I should get out the Amprobe and see if there is a significant difference in start up current draw. This thought never occurred to me until I read your posting and began to respond to it. I went out to the garage to put the Amprobe into my car to take to my workshop garage tomorrow. As I was doing that I remembered that the lathe motor needed 3 capacitors in high speed vs 2 capacitors in low speed - guessing that capacitor requirement is a function of current draw (I just never put two and two together). Most of my turning has been between 150 to 700 rpm and I can get there with the lathe motor in either high or low. I'm thinking that my power concerns may have an easy solution. Thank you for your posting!
                  Metro Detroit

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by aribert View Post

                    I'm confident that 3 hp would be adequate. I need to do some studying (on how one goes about disconnecting half the windings).

                    BTW, this is a two speed motor and I am running it in high speed - guess I should get out the Amprobe and see if there is a significant difference in start up current draw. This thought never occurred to me until I read your posting and began to respond to it. I went out to the garage to put the Amprobe into my car to take to my workshop garage tomorrow. As I was doing that I remembered that the lathe motor needed 3 capacitors in high speed vs 2 capacitors in low speed - guessing that capacitor requirement is a function of current draw (I just never put two and two together). Most of my turning has been between 150 to 700 rpm and I can get there with the lathe motor in either high or low. I'm thinking that my power concerns may have an easy solution. Thank you for your posting!
                    Motor will be half power in low speed. However, I have found that our start-up current is actually higher for low speed on a similar HP machine. But it starts easier in low. So maybe I didn't read that right haha.

                    This is why a spindle clutch is a hobbyist's best friend.
                    21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
                    1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by aribert View Post

                      I'm confident that 3 hp would be adequate. I need to do some studying (on how one goes about disconnecting half the windings).

                      BTW, this is a two speed motor and I am running it in high speed - guess I should get out the Amprobe and see if there is a significant difference in start up current draw. This thought never occurred to me until I read your posting and began to respond to it. I went out to the garage to put the Amprobe into my car to take to my workshop garage tomorrow. As I was doing that I remembered that the lathe motor needed 3 capacitors in high speed vs 2 capacitors in low speed - guessing that capacitor requirement is a function of current draw (I just never put two and two together). Most of my turning has been between 150 to 700 rpm and I can get there with the lathe motor in either high or low. I'm thinking that my power concerns may have an easy solution. Thank you for your posting!
                      I am here to provide mental stimulation and entertainment.

                      -Doozer
                      DZER

                      Comment

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