Atlas shaper vise value?

[challenger]

Anyone have any ideas as to the value of an Atlas 7" shaper vise? I've done the flea bay search and don't see how these are being listed for these prices? Is there something special about them? Can they core a apple or something?

[lynnl]

Anyone have any ideas as to the value ....

I do. Supply (low) vs demand (high) ...relatively speaking, of course.

Many, maybe even most, shapers lost their accompanying OEM vises somewhere along the way to the current owner, who now wants to make his shaper complete and original.

[reggie_obe]

If you were stupid enough to snag an Atlas (or any small) shaper without a proper vise, your options are pretty limited. If you limit your search to sold, they seem to fetch anywhere from $172 to $450 (free shipping. Condition varies.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Atlas-7B-Shaper-S7-92-Vise-4-034-Machinist-Milling-Machine-Vice-Swivel-Base-/154148999722?hash=item23e3ff122a%3Ag%3Aa4wAAOSwy1FfjIvY&nma=true&si=HDcCQxjE3bttHB2WyfKoTRk4hX8%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[paul463]

When the shapers got scrapped the vises went on to other dutys. Seems like the original Atlas vise will bring more money than an Atlas shaper missing it's vise.
I paid $175 for my Atlas, no vice, but does have the original cast iron legs. Ended up building a vice for it from odds and ends I had laying around.

[challenger]

I do. Supply (low) vs demand (high) ...relatively speaking, of course.

Many, maybe even most, shapers lost their accompanying OEM vises somewhere along the way to the current owner, who now wants to make his shaper complete and original.

I know you are correct but I don't get it. These are low budget shapers not split window corvettes. I dare say that an original vise from a 7" Atlas shaper is worth more than the actual shaper.

[Bented]

One word.

Collectors

These people define the cost. It would appear that many hobbyists feel that a machine is not correct without original attachments.
I have no idea what an Atlas shaper is or was, is it at all possible that a different manufacturers vice, Kurt for instance, would work?

https://www.kurtworkholding.com/product/kurt-dx4-crossover-vise/

[Rich Carlstedt]

There is part of our society and especially Home Shop Guys who want to make their equipment "Original"
You see it with classic cars and lathe/Mill rebuilds...I have no explanation for that, as I even have a good friend that wants his machine to look "Factory"
and even the "exact" shade of paint is important ! I have no quarrel with those folks, but having worked in Machine and Die shops for most of my life,
I find it hilarious at times. These gentleman that do that sort of thing find it sacrilegious to drill a hole in a casting ( NOT THE MILL TABLE ) , but in the real world
of machining, if we needed a mist nozzle in a certain place, the column was tapped and the mist unit installed--no big deal.. The machine tool is made to make parts, not be placed on an edifice.
Machine shops don't " Disrespect their equipment " they just know that it is a tool like a hand drill...You use it and when it cannot do what you want, you toss it and get a new one .
So when your Maketa portable hand drill breaks, you go buy a Milwaukee or whatever.
There is a psychological aspect to this and it is the old adage ..."My mill is better than your mill" type thought process..
So as long as there are people that want " factory" , they are willing to pay for the original part....and there are those who prey on such victims....errrr...I mean customers

A friend recently showed me a automobile Headlamp GLASS for an antique car..just the glass was $3000 ...Now I think that is insane , but the collector drools over such pieces

My Mill is a 1943 Bridgeport -serial number 3923 and it has a 1958 ~ Dovetail ram instead of the factory round overarm and a J head instead of the M head it had originally and a 1981 Spaulding Digital Read Out...all not factory for 1943, and when that mill fails, I will get another one ...and did I say, it does not have the factory vise, but has a Kurt.
'Strokes for some people is Pokes for others "
Rich

[Bented]

Knew a guy, long deceased, that owned a machine shop that mostly made injection molds for the toy model industry in the 60's and 70's, cars, ships, aircraft and so on.

One of his lucrative side hustles was making as cast numbers for car collectors to attach to non original parts for use at classic car competitions.

There is nothing worse than having some know nothing 20 year old point out that the casting numbers on the intake manifold of your beloved 1956 Bel Air are incorrect.
This can be fixed

[BCRider]

One word.

Collectors

These people define the cost. It would appear that many hobbyists feel that a machine is not correct without original attachments.
I have no idea what an Atlas shaper is or was, is it at all possible that a different manufacturers vice, Kurt for instance, would work?
https://www.kurtworkholding.com/prod...rossover-vise/

Yep. Stoopid collectors....

There's options. I've been using my Kurt clone mill vise on my shaper. The bolt slot spacing isn't right for letting me use it with the jaws straight across though. And the swivel base doesn't fit either. So I'm going to make a square plate with mounting studs that I can bolt to the box bed of the shaper and then bolt the mill vise to the plate.

I know that this puts the movable jaw on the receiving end of the power stroke. But it's better than paying the crazy prices for a shaper vise. And on these smaller shapers and lighter cuts it's not as big an issue.

The other option I've considered is the idea of a two part low profile vise that bolts to the box bed. For a smaller machine like your Atlas or my Alba I think it is a viable option. it would be along the same lines as THIS SHOP MADE VERSION BY THIS OLD TONY. But I'd start with a little bigger fixed jaw and arrange the hold down bolts so they sit closer to the hardened jaw to resist flexing up under load. And each version would have to be slightly modified to fit the bolt holes to the slots for each shaper.... Or vertical mill for that matter because I'd like something similar for that as well. Although on my mill I could get away with using the swivel base. Best of all it is something that could be made directly on our shapers from pieces of square or rectangular stock. using nothing more than a good sturdy angle plate to start out. And perhaps not even that much. We might be able to make the whole thing with some holes to allow clamping the work piece directly since we need the holes later anyway.

To Paul463, I like how you make use of "odds and ends" That's a seriously nice job on your vise. The four top screws on the movable jaw? Are those for adjusting out tilt play?

[J Tiers]

One word.

Collectors

These people define the cost. It would appear that many hobbyists feel that a machine is not correct without original attachments.
I have no idea what an Atlas shaper is or was, is it at all possible that a different manufacturers vice, Kurt for instance, would work?
.....

The table is small, since the Atlas shaper has a total work envelope of about a 7" cube. The vise matches that size.

I do not understand machine collectors (except car restorers) and because I USE the machines, I paint what needs painted with my current favorite version of "machinery gray". If that does not match the rest of the machine, I am not concerned.

I am going to (gasp, choke) to agree with Bented *, and wonder if the folks trying to restore the machine to "the appearance as from the factory" ** actually ever use the machines.

I tend to think that they do not, since that would damage the lovely paint job. It might also mean that they would want/need to do something about the mechanical condition of the machine, which would add many more problems..... After all if the machine was not originally scraped, but instead ground, then scraping would be unavailable to them, and they would need to spend much money getting the machine re-ground instead. Do they need to then also specify the use of "original factory" wheel grit grades on the machine?

What if the original grinding was not good enough to make the machine perform well? Go with a better grind for use, or stay original but not as good.....?

So many problems for collectors.


* Is that for Ben Ted, as Benjamin Tedorovitch, or Bent Ed?

** I notice that these folks virtually never do anything with regard to scraping or re-grinding the machine to PERFORM like a new machine, it just "LOOKS" kinda like one.

[challenger]

Wow! Did I open a worm can? My bad😁

[Danl]

I am going to (gasp, choke) to agree with Bented *,

Wait, WHAT? ARGHHHHH.......

[reggie_obe]

Wow! Did I open a worm can? My bad😁

Hardly. If you can $300+ from someone who wants the original vise, great.

[754]

You got no worry, you are holding the part......do as you wish..
hey I got a Very nice Atlas milling attachment too that I do not need. .
I disagree about split window stuff.. if I was it would be a 1200 dollar vise.
..........who cares if they use their machines ? Use your own... make stuff.. enjoy..

[Paul Alciatore]

Old adage: "It is worth what someone is willing to pay for it."

Even if you can make an XYZ figamabob for only one percent of what others can make them for, for only one percent of the materials in it, it is not worth that one percent if no one is willing to pay you that much for it. And vice-versa.

Consider a painting by an old master. Just how much would the materials cost? How much would a current artist's time cost? Now multiply that sum by a one followed by three, four, five, or more zeros. It is not what the original artist sold it for. It is not what a similar one could be made for. It is purely what people are willing to pay.

Another example: I worked for a company that sold things with those annoying, after midnight informercials. The most shocking thing that I learned was that the price being asked for most of this "merchandise", after the cost of manufacture and shipping, was determined purely by the price that sold the most. An item that cost only a few dollars to manufacture and a few more to ship could sell for 2, 4, even 10 times that amount. Whatever produced the most income, pure and simple. Only years later, when these products got into WalMart did the price become more related to the actual cost. Of course 99% of them never got to that point.