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Atlas shaper vise value?

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  • #31
    I don't begrudge individuals wanting to have things as original. It's their money so let them spend it as they please.

    The vise shown in Rich C's post with the non-moving jaw positioned to withstand the tool forces is correct. I have heard shaper folks saying the moving jaw of a typical small milling vise is too weak to withstand the forces (probably not on a small shaper like an Atlas though).

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    • #32
      Originally posted by David Powell View Post
      The vise holds work squarely
      ,I have it positioned so that the jaws sit parallel with the ram movement.
      If I get too greedy, or try using an unsuitable tool the workpiece just gets pushed out of the vice without damage to the machine.
      About 25 thous is its max comfortable depth of cut in steel.
      I am still learning about tool shapes, Lathe tools do not always do a good job.
      Regards David Powell
      David, your result in the tool shape and depth of cut mirrors my own results with my Alba.

      In looking at YT videos on shapers a recent one had the fellow talking about how the chips needed to be directed up and back so they did not get pushed into the cut. That and looking over a book on shapers with a section on the angles got me to try grinding to the angle given. And I have to admit that it made a big difference. I just recently ground and tried out a "roughing tool". The surface it is leaving is clearly textured by the nose shape and stepover but the surface within that nose shape texture is not torn up like I was getting with a lathe specific tool. And a big part of that seems to be how the chip is lifted up and away from the corner. The two styles do so quite differently even though the shape is only subtly different.

      The thought about the work being pushed away is a good one too. As long as it can hold it firmly enough to not slip. But I do run into times where I would prefer to orient the vise the other way.
      Chilliwack BC, Canada

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      • #33
        Rich, your vise is a good example of how shaper vises are quite different from milling vises.

        One feature that I see on your vise and have seen on others is the bolt head on the top of the moving jaw. Just to confirm... That is eased slightly to allow the jaw to move and after the lead screw is tight that bolt is snugged to draw the jaw down so it sits more square? I'd always thought that should be the case but I wanted to just confirm if this is correct or not.
        Chilliwack BC, Canada

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        • #34
          It is refreshing to witness hobbyists banter on about 80 year old machines.
          Also Kurt makes reverse vises for such applications.
          https://allindustrial.com/61-421-198...SABEgLQG_D_BwE

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          • #35
            We DO get a bit of "tool shaming" and even a fair bit of "project shaming" ("I'd not waste my time on that"), and so forth here, but I do not think R.C.'s vise counts as that. Some other coments? Yeah they are at least borderline.

            Originally posted by David Powell View Post
            The vise holds work squarely
            ,I have it positioned so that the jaws sit parallel with the ram movement.
            If I get too greedy, or try using an unsuitable tool the workpiece just gets pushed out of the vice without damage to the machine.
            About 25 thous is its max comfortable depth of cut in steel.
            I am still learning about tool shapes, Lathe tools do not always do a good job.
            Regards David Powell
            With a good tool grind, even an Atlas shaper can take off at least 0.1" D.O.C.

            The guy I bought one from had a very nice "slicing" cutter that would easily do more than that, since he showed it peeling close to 0.150" off of a piece of mild steel plate about 4-5" square.

            The plate, by the way, was held in a cheapo HF drill press vise, everything the experts and pundits would say is wrong, and it worked like a champ.

            A shaper vise is a vise on a shaper. If it works, let it be. The second shaper I bought came with the "original" vise. It works too, even of it is "made absolutely wrong in every way". (Atlas OEM vise)

            I stopped even USING a shaper vise. I found that screw poppets and table stops, table strips, etc worked as well or better for most things. And I used the shaper all the time, since I had no mill then.
            Last edited by J Tiers; 01-10-2021, 04:15 PM.
            2801 3147 6749 8779 4900 4900 4900

            Keep eye on ball.
            Hashim Khan


            It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Bented View Post
              It is refreshing to witness hobbyists banter on about 80 year old machines.
              ]
              How so?
              in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post

                How so?
                Entertainment, old guys arguing about the merits of ancient equipment is fascinating.
                I prefer propeller driven commercial aircraft because they are much slower, as it should be.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Bented View Post

                  Entertainment, old guys arguing about the merits of ancient equipment is fascinating.
                  glad you're getting whatever it is you need here, but no, you wouldn't get it, old guys talking about machines
                  Last edited by Mcgyver; 01-10-2021, 05:00 PM.
                  in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post

                    glad you're getting whatever it is you need here, but no, you wouldn't get it, old guys talking about machines
                    I am not old, a mere 61.
                    You must admit that watching people pile up on any subject is entertaining at the very least, right hysterical at best.

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                    • #40
                      Looks like somebody needs to work on their reading comprehension.
                      Lynn (Huntsville, AL)

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Bented View Post

                        I am not old, a mere 61.
                        You must admit that watching people pile up on any subject is entertaining at the very least, right hysterical at best.
                        Even more amusing is the machine shaming, tool shaming, project shaming and general attitude shaming that sum of them profeshunal folks heer lyke to dooo.

                        If they don't like what they read, there is always PM.
                        2801 3147 6749 8779 4900 4900 4900

                        Keep eye on ball.
                        Hashim Khan


                        It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Not all shaper vises tighten from the same side, tis convenient tho to have it on the outside tho..

                          I get a feeling someone on here is constantly comparing late model production equipment to home hobby equipment..
                          makes you wonder what they have at home or are just using their employers equipment... an option that many of us do not have.
                          Last edited by 754; 01-11-2021, 12:34 AM.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by 754 View Post
                            Not all shaper vines tighten from the same side, tis convenient tho to have it on the outside tho..

                            I get a feeling someone on here is constantly comparing late model production equipment to home hobby equipment..
                            makes you wonder what they have at home or are just using their employers equipment... an option that many of us do not have.
                            Yah think? One of them says he has nothing at home and no interest in it when off work. Makes you wonder.....
                            2801 3147 6749 8779 4900 4900 4900

                            Keep eye on ball.
                            Hashim Khan


                            It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by BCRider View Post
                              Rich, your vise is a good example of how shaper vises are quite different from milling vises.
                              One feature that I see on your vise and have seen on others is the bolt head on the top of the moving jaw. Just to confirm... That is eased slightly to allow the jaw to move and after the lead screw is tight that bolt is snugged to draw the jaw down so it sits more square? I'd always thought that should be the case but I wanted to just confirm if this is correct or not.
                              BCRider, Yes it is , After clamping , you tighten the moving jaw as this shaper vice will clamp parts with up to a 7 degree taper, or flip it around and clamp on round parts.
                              Rich
                              Click image for larger version  Name:	P1100284.JPG Views:	13 Size:	638.1 KB ID:	1921230 Click image for larger version  Name:	P1100283.JPG Views:	14 Size:	685.2 KB ID:	1921231

                              Edit, I should have said "turn it around".for the jaw ..The moving jaw will pivot 360 degrees, but not flip over
                              Last edited by Rich Carlstedt; 01-10-2021, 09:28 PM.
                              Green Bay, WI

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                              • #45
                                That's quite a nice vise. Tapers, and round/irregular both.

                                What is it on?
                                2801 3147 6749 8779 4900 4900 4900

                                Keep eye on ball.
                                Hashim Khan


                                It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

                                Comment

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