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Yeah, O'l Metric System and catch up Everyone else, Please.

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  • #61
    Originally posted by dian View Post
    but you say "a 7 deci bottle" of booze. its the standard size.
    In the whole of Europe, a bottle of wine will be labeled as 70cl, or 75cl. Centilitre, never deci, (decilitre).

    In the UK, distances on roadsigns are in miles, but the coded markers on the side of motorways are metric.

    A pint of beer, or anything else in the UK is 20 floz, or 568ml.

    A ton weight is 2240 pounds, which is closer to the tonne, 1000 kg than the little ton in the USA.
    Last edited by old mart; 01-17-2021, 03:22 PM.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by boslab View Post
      Horses were measured in hands but I think 1 farmers dick = one hand, problem Texas imports stuff that ends up 1/2 size,
      Q, if you need 25000 armed soldiers to protect you your probably haven’t been elected
      mark
      Horses are still measured in hands, but I pity the farmer, because a hand is 4".

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      • #63
        Originally posted by loose nut View Post

        You had to start this Imperial metric $#!+ up again. If you like metric so much why don't you just move to Europe.
        Hahaa! Yes I did. And no thanks to Europe. South East Asia would be my destination. JR
        My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

        https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

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        • #64
          Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

          Well, let's see what is ACTUALLY true, instead of what people like to say.......
          Yes, Mr Tiers, that would be a good idea. We could start by identifying anything in my post which isn't true. "Everybody knows that the earth is permanent and unchanging (despite what it says in the Bible)" I'm certainly guilty of irony here (Yes, I know one should never be ironic in print unless one sets it in an ironic typeface. Guilty as charged). How about "It has been a common belief [citation needed] that the earth is permanent and unchanging, despite what is said in Isaiah 51 verse 6."
          But have I said anything that is actually untrue??

          Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

          So obviously, the ONE thing that has not been done is to mandate the exclusive use of the metric system. That does rather smack of dictatorship, of course.
          You raise an interesting point. Would that be dictatorship or just good governance? The power to do that already exists, and to some extent has already been exercised. "The United States in Congress assembled shall also have the sole and exclusive right and power of regulating the alloy and value of coin struck by their own authority, or by that of the respective states ; fixing the standard of weights and measures throughout the Unites States ; ..." [Articles of Confederation adopted by the Continental Congress, November 15, 1777, section 4, article ix] I realise that some there are who regard any sort of law as an unmitigated evil, but I suspect that even they would regard regulation of coinage as a reasonable imposition.

          Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

          So, remind me again just how the USA has never adopted the metric system?
          So, remind me again just where I said that the USA has never adopted the metric system.

          Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

          How's that alternate facts and optional history thing workin out for yah?
          Well, there was one optional bit where I said "it could be argued that..." [emphasis added] Perhaps you could point out the alternative facts to me, for I can't see them. Here's a real fact though: "On January 8, 1795 the President transmitted to Congress a communication from the Minister of the French Republic, describing in detail the new system of weights and measures..." [Executive Docs., Third Congress, Second Session]. That was over three years after Jefferson introduced his system. My fault, as far as I can see, is that I didn't make sufficiently clear my point that the USA had a clear lead in establishing a world-beating decimal system of measures, and failed to capitalise on it. For my fault I apologise.

          Regrettably both the US and the UK governments have a long history of failing to grasp this particular nettle, to the cost of both nations. Still, let's look on the bright side. The UK government followed the lead of the US, only a couple of centuries later, in decimalising the coinage. They started by introducing the florin, worth two shillings but marked 'one tenth of a pound' . That was in 1849, and it was followed at breakneck speed by full decimalisation on 14th February 1971. We'll go fully metric yet! In the meantime I'm one of the diminishing band who know that three-and-fourpence is one sixth of a pound, and how many half-crowns there are in ten bob.

          George B.

          Correction: Decimalisation was on 15th February 1971, so the process took even longer than I thought. What I do remember is that the lady on the till in the canteen was trembling with nerves as we rolled up for our morning coffee.

          G.B.
          Last edited by Georgineer; 01-17-2021, 07:08 PM. Reason: Correcting faulty memory (substituting real fact for alternative fact)

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          • #65
            And my thought is stick to one or the other when making a "system"..

            Say the system is an automobile. Maybe a GM product. The end user could be me and needs to do some maintenance. WhoA!!! They managed to stuff some Imperial and Metric fasteners all over the vehicle.

            I cant get my head around that as to why? Only thing I can think of is there are parts on the car from various Nations. Or... The tool manufactures found a way to make it so an regular ol auto mech has to buy new tools to work on a chevy JR
            My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

            https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Bented View Post
              Only integers are not fractions
              For practical purposes in machining all numbers expressed in decimal form are fractions with a common denominator.

              .001/1000" is a fraction no?
              1' = 1000/1000"
              1 mm = 1000/1000 mm
              100 people in a single room = 100/100 people there, if one leaves you now have 99/100 people.
              Even integers can be expressed as fractions.

              Example: 2 = 2/1; 4 = 4/1, 127 = 127/1; and so on.

              Fractions are rational numbers by definition.

              Imperial units are now defined in terms of the meter. There’s no problem. Anybody can quickly become adept with using both systems. It’s no big deal.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Georgineer View Post

                Yes, Mr Tiers, that would be a good idea. We could start by identifying anything in my post which isn't true. ...............

                G.B.
                Well,

                There is that idea that the US Federal government can mandate ONLY the use of one type weight and measure, and can forbid under penalty of law the use of another.

                The US government CAN regulate "interstate commerce", and can set the weights and measures used when dealing with the Federal government. Penalties, well if you don't comply, you cannot do business with the Federal level of government, and if you cross state lines, you might have a problem with Federal law.

                There is such a thing as "states rights", which is pretty much covering anything that is not reserved to the Federals. So a state might need to also mandate etc, weights and measures for any commerce that does not cross state lines.

                Our "states" are not just big counties. They are governmental entities with an executive authority, and even an army (the state "National Guard"), which are "Federated" into one country, while reserving many powers to themselves and within themselves. Their laws differ, and what is legal in Missouri is potentially not legal in New York or even Illinois.

                So as you can see, the Senate and House of representatives do not have unlimited overall power. Much power is reserved to the states.

                You may also see that the federal government did their part 154 years ago. They allowed the use of the metric measures in interstate commerce. There was a later drive toward metric measure, which was started, but was then stopped by reactionary elements within the government. After that it was up to the individuals, with the clear implication that if there was an advantage , the system would be quickly adopted.

                And, so it has turned out. All scientific work, and the products of any company that sells internationally, such as auto companies, etc, are "metric". Any suppliers to those companies are also "metricated" to qualify as a vendor. You cannot buy much of anything at the store which does not have dual measurements, starting with the ubiquitous 2l bottle.

                The power to compel at every level is the sticking point here. Napoleon had it easy, he jailed those who did not comply. We do not do that, and have a long history of allowing the market to decide these changes.

                If the US were not such a large market in itself, then I very much suspect that the metric system would have been in common use by 1920.

                Curiously, the products of "metric" countries are not always metric when they show up here. My Volvo 240, ca 1989, not that long ago, is a very odd combination of metric and inch.
                Last edited by J Tiers; 01-17-2021, 11:57 PM.
                2801 3147 6749 8779 4900 4900 4900

                Keep eye on ball.
                Hashim Khan


                It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by mgt3 View Post
                  Even integers can be expressed as fractions.

                  Example: 2 = 2/1; 4 = 4/1, 127 = 127/1; and so on.

                  Fractions are rational numbers by definition.
                  .
                  I have been trying to tell these folks here that decimals and fractions are the same oh well

                  Horse and water thing. JR

                  My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

                  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

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                  • #69
                    Deciliters are in common use here, mostly in cooking recipes.

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                    • #70
                      You know what is really frustrating wqith american products (thinking of my Toro 828 snow blower), you mix both metric and imperial fasteners! I can live easily with having a socket set in inches, but I get real frustraded when I also gotta go get my metric sockets because suddenly a 13mm hex bolt appears.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                        Well...

                        ... Curiously, the products of "metric" countries are not always metric when they show up here. My Volvo 240, ca 1989, not that long ago, is a very odd combination of metric and inch.
                        Thank you for your very clear response. I have learned something!

                        As far as your Volvo is concerned, it was said in the eighties that if you wanted a British car you should buy a Volvo, because there were more British components in it than in most "British" cars, so I'm not very surprised at the mix.

                        The mixture of thread systems in a single car is not new. My 1956 Morris Minor had Whitworth threads for all the body parts, and Unified for all the greasy bits - except the bolt on the dynamo stay which was Whitworth. I soon filed the bolt head down to the nearest Unified size! I believe the reason for the mix was the merger between Morris and Austin in the early fifties, after which the Morris body was uprated with Austin mechanicals.

                        George B.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Bented View Post
                          ....10.20 mm is also expressed as 10 1/5 mm
                          Not in any World I've ever lived in....🤣
                          But someone posted the following over in PM many years ago, and certainly for many of us in the UK - it's very true!

                          “Seeing as I live and have learned in Britain, I'll give you the run down of how a modern British engineering type person thinks

                          From 0 to 0.001" I use microns
                          From 0.025mm to 0.1mm I use imperial
                          From 0.04" to 1" I use metric
                          and anything above 25.4mm I use imperial “


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                          • #73
                            I have it all solved and it's a rather fun solution when explained to others. Measuring can be simplified..
                            I have a tape measuring device that has a unique system not metric or imperial. It's graduated in how do I say, C hairs. Yes the ultimate fine adjustment.
                            A lot of fun is had letting other people use it when they finally read the text and whilst one side is graduated in the usa preferred inches, the other edge of the tape is in C hairs.

                            Go on ebay and type in the words **nt hair tape measure and buy one and you'll get a lot of grins with it. Even wifey finds it easier as at 60 many years old she still can't grasp how to read an inches tape. 2450 CH is easier than counting out four and 13 sixteenths in the stupid inch system.
                            Last edited by I make chips; 01-18-2021, 10:20 AM.

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                            • #74
                              no hits, just hair extensions.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by JRouche View Post
                                And my thought is stick to one or the other when making a "system"................. WhoA!!! They managed to stuff some Imperial and Metric fasteners all over the vehicle. I cant get my head around that as to why? ......................l auto mech has to buy new tools to work on a chevy JR
                                Sort of funny JRouche, not your question, but the mixed threads you point out.

                                Everyone, !!! stand back and take a DEEP breath
                                There is a simple answer that no one has mentioned and is the root of this evil..
                                Its called "Inventory"
                                The reason you may not like metric is you do not have those tools (Inventory)
                                The reason you may not like Imperial is you do not have those tools ( Inventory)
                                The reason a manufacturer uses Imperial is because he has imperial tools ( inventory)
                                The reason a Manufacturer uses Metric is because he has those tools (Inventory)
                                So Your Government comes out tomorrow and says "The Official measurement for all things is "Microns " ( Not mm ,or " or yards ect)
                                Are you going to scrap all your mikes...your Lathe, your Mill your hand tools ? OF course NOT
                                But a big argument will ensue between Home Shop Machinists on why they need Microns for measurement , since they have the tools for xxxxxxxx ( doesn't matter)
                                So YOU ALL have ....."Inventory" and scraping that inventory would be stupid in your mind
                                Well guess what ? All the manufacturers feel the same way !
                                Do you think GM will scrap 25 Billion dollars of tooling because a government committee decided that without GM's import ?
                                Do you think the Government should tell you what to scrap in your home shop ?------- Of course not. !
                                Study the history of Threads ....
                                Whitworth made his "V STYLE" the standard in England in early 1860's ( 55 deg?) and this was followed shortly in the US (Franklin Institute) with a 60 degree "standard"
                                BUT, Pitches ( TPI) were not standardize ...you know why ? because of Inventory !
                                It wasn't until 1912 before ANSI standards came in and even then, it took until 1964 or so before they were refined
                                So it takes 100 years just to reach agreements on that alone !

                                Theorem-- The rate of change is a function of inventory- as inventory is worked off, so is the change effected.

                                My shop has both,so I am Ambistandard--a new word for HSM'ers---- like ambidextrous means using both hands equally

                                Just my two cents....errrrr 4 halfpence

                                Rich
                                Last edited by Rich Carlstedt; 01-18-2021, 12:42 PM.
                                Green Bay, WI

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