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  • I have a set of rules in my shop. These are my personal rules as well as for any visitors. One of them is If I take a vise off a machine, when I replace it I either tram it true of put it on crooked enough it is obvious. The crooked happens when I don't have time to tram it.

    Yesterday I was about 4 hours into a rather precise part. I put it in the vise and set the DRO off a bore and proceeded to drill a series of holes relative to the bore. The holes are all perfect relative to the bore and 10 degrees or less off relative to the base of the part. It will work fine but it looks like CRAP.

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    • OCD is a cruel mistress
      mark

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      • It is not OCD but rather pride in workmanship. I like the vise trammed for the job where time is of importance and I don't need to check the tram. The vise has a swivel base so it is a simple task to loosen a move to a visual angle.

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        • Originally posted by Stepside View Post
          ... 10 degrees or less off relative to the base of the part. ...
          So, the vise was off that much? That seems like enough to be obvious and meet your protocol. What happened?

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          • Originally posted by Stepside View Post
            It is not OCD but rather pride in workmanship. I like the vise trammed for the job where time is of importance and I don't need to check the tram. The vise has a swivel base so it is a simple task to loosen a move to a visual angle.
            It was a joke btw, don’t take offence, I even put nails in rows, bugs me if ones wonkey, I like jobs to look professional too so I get it, I don’t have ocd I’m just obsessive and slightly compulsive
            mark

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            • Damn nails better be straight.
              My shop is a messy horror yet everything I do as close to perfect as practical.

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              • I thought I needed to buy a new blood sugar tester but I didn't. I thought the old one's batteries had died so I bought new batteries @ $10/pair and put them in and nadda! Ok, it's almost 12 years old so I figured the electronics had bit the biscuit. I bought a new tester @$40 and be darned if it didn't work too! Then, I held the "On" button down a bit longer than I had been for some reason and lo and behold the screen lite up. Then I tried my old tester and held the button down longer and it fired right up too! Fortunately the store refunded my money totally but I still have a $10 pair of batteries that I just don't need.
                Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

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                • Originally posted by Arcane View Post
                  I thought I needed to buy a new blood sugar tester but I didn't. I thought the old one's batteries had died so I bought new batteries @ $10/pair and put them in and nadda! Ok, it's almost 12 years old so I figured the electronics had bit the biscuit. I bought a new tester @$40 and be darned if it didn't work too! Then, I held the "On" button down a bit longer than I had been for some reason and lo and behold the screen lite up. Then I tried my old tester and held the button down longer and it fired right up too! Fortunately the store refunded my money totally but I still have a $10 pair of batteries that I just don't need.
                  I often wonder who decided that we no longer need a tail. I also chase my former tail location as well. 😁

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                  • After the comment that I should be able to see 10 degrees of error I measured the angle on the finished part. It was between 1 and 2 degrees. So I was able to measure the part and draw it with CAD. 1.3 degrees was the result. But it still looks like crap. I installed a vise on each of my mills today and they are sitting at a 20 to 30 degree angle waiting for the morning to be put in tram.

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                    • Originally posted by Stepside View Post
                      After the comment that I should be able to see 10 degrees of error I measured the angle on the finished part. It was between 1 and 2 degrees. So I was able to measure the part and draw it with CAD. 1.3 degrees was the result. But it still looks like crap. I installed a vise on each of my mills today and they are sitting at a 20 to 30 degree angle waiting for the morning to be put in tram.
                      If someone moves a trammed vise and doesn't tram it back when they are finished using the machine then they are inconsiderate and selfish. They should have to spend their lunch hour walking around the shop while holding the vise above their heads. If they get tired and drop it on their dome so what.

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                      • Was supposed to get the tormach this morning, but the weather was gonna be nasty so I rescheduled for last night. All was going great with the move. We dragged it out into the floor under the crane, separated the base from the head casting, and The lifted it up so I could back the trailer under it. I was watching in the rear view mirror when the cranes brake let go for some reason, and the mill accelerated at 9.8 meters per square second towards the concrete floor from about 2'........

                        Initial damage survey shows a cracked base casting at the right rear mounting foot.

                        We agreed upon some compensation, and finished loading it with an engine crane and some help from the hoist. Still haven't unloaded it yet. It's sitting in my driveway under some tarps getting snowed on right now. I'm not really in the mood to do anything with it right now.....

                        Not sure what my course of action is going to be. I'm probably going to set it up and run it a bit to see what else might be damaged, then tear it down to the casting to repair. Not sure if tormach would sell me one, if they even had one (not sure how different new model is from mine) and not sure I'd want to know the price. I have repaired a few castings before with brazing, although this one would be the biggest. I also have the means to machine it back to square at work. If it really comes down to it, An epoxy granite filled weldment with linear rails might be in the cards. Who knows. All options running through my mind last night as I couldn't sleep. I have a feeling it's going to be a bigger and more complicated than than I want it to be though....

                        Not sure how I feel at this point. A pretty good mix of all emotions, but just very glad no one was hurt. It could have been much worse if I had the trailer half under it, and it tipped over. It hit pretty much flat, and slightly on the back legs.

                        At least I got the first crash out of the way....:
                        Last edited by Dan Dubeau; 02-27-2021, 10:40 AM.

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                        • Originally posted by Dan Dubeau View Post
                          Was supposed to get the tormach this morning, but the weather was gonna be nasty so I rescheduled for last night. All was going great with the move. We dragged it out into the floor under the crane, separated the base from the head casting, and The lifted it up so I could back the trailer under it. I was watching in the rear view mirror when the cranes brake let go for some reason, and the mill accelerated at 9.8 meters per square second towards the concrete floor from about 2'........

                          Initial damage survey shows a cracked base casting at the right rear mounting foot.

                          We agreed upon some compensation, and finished loading it with an engine crane and some help from the hoist. Still haven't unloaded it yet. It's sitting in my driveway under some tarps getting snowed on right now. I'm not really in the mood to do anything with it right now.....

                          Not sure what my course of action is going to be. I'm probably going to set it up and run it a bit to see what else might be damaged, then tear it down to the casting to repair. Not sure if tormach would sell me one, if they even had one (not sure how different new model is from mine) and not sure I'd want to know the price. I have repaired a few castings before with brazing, although this one would be the biggest. I also have the means to machine it back to square at work. If it really comes down to it, An epoxy granite filled weldment with linear rails might be in the cards. Who knows. All options running through my mind last night as I couldn't sleep. I have a feeling it's going to be a bigger and more complicated than than I want it to be though....

                          Not sure how I feel at this point. A pretty good mix of all emotions, but just very glad no one was hurt. It could have been much worse if I had the trailer half under it, and it tipped over. It hit pretty much flat, and slightly on the back legs.

                          At least I got the first crash out of the way....:
                          Dude. My heart dropped reading that. Hope that's its just the casting that's damaged and nothing more serious.
                          Cayuga, Ontario, Canada

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                          • Ouch Dan, thats terrible. A crane load failing like that is serious thing...wonder if they had their annual certification? I hope you were very aggressive in demanding compensation, like the cost of the machine
                            Last edited by Mcgyver; 02-27-2021, 12:20 PM.
                            in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

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                            • Originally posted by Tom S View Post

                              Dude. My heart dropped reading that. Hope that's its just the casting that's damaged and nothing more serious.
                              I hope so too. Will know more in a few hours. It's stopped raining, so my dad is coming back to give me a hand getting it off the trailer.


                              Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post
                              Ouch Dan, thats terrible. A crane failing like that is serious thing...wonder if they had their annual certification. I hope you were very aggressive in demanding compensation, like the cost of the machine
                              No cert, just a guy in his garage with an overhead beam trolley crane. It was only "rated" at 1/2 ton, and the mill is 1100.... He'd lifted it with it before, and we did lift it (off the base), and set it down prior to lifting it again to back the trailer under with no issues. Not sure why it decided to let go the 2nd time, but it did. Maybe some thermal protection? Either way, we both went in knowing the consequences, but decided to proceed anyway. Smart? No, but It would be a small percentage of people who could raise their hand and say they've never pushed an envelope before. I accept the consequences. It could have been worse.

                              As for compensation, to be honest from my perspective he didn't have to do anything. It was a handshake deal, no written contract. It's not the cost of the machine, probably not even the cost of the repair. But it's something. I'm really trying to stay positive, but I know full well this is going to sour the sweetness of this deal quite a bit.....

                              I'm honestly trying to compare this to some of my motorcycle crashes, and move forward with an asses and repair mentality. It's a machine, made up of man made parts. It can be fixed.....I think. I hope.....


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                              • Look at the bright side - you get to practice repairing a casting! (Make lemonade?) Seriously, with any luck it will turn out not to be anything that actually effects the operation of the beast.
                                "A machinist's (WHAP!) best friend (WHAP! WHAP!) is his hammer. (WHAP!)" - Fred Tanner, foreman, Lunenburg Foundry and Engineering machine shop, circa 1979

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