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OT? Well, I Do Take Pictures in The Shop; Need a Video BB

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  • #16
    I don't see the need to put too much thought into this. iPhones are used to make some great videos on YouTube. Don't think 4k will give you a better product, it will just give you a headache as the processing time is unreal. Stick to 1080. I use VideoPad for my editing and it is cheap at $49, and works well, and above all it is easy to use. Just start making some videos and you will see what works and what doesn't. Play around with some experimental videos and see what you like.

    Comment


    • #17
      Great advise here. Most of it I could have written. My comments in red below.



      Originally posted by Tobias-B View Post
      Some starting answers, since the Covids has made me learn this stuffs for works.

      1. 1080p is fine. 30p or 1080i, with post- processing.
      Be VERY wary of something that claims to be HD without telling you all the numbers.
      Resolution of 1920x1080 is plenty, and anything more adds cubic time and data.
      There's nothing wrong with 720p, either.
      Until I see a clear need, I will probably be using one of the lower resolutions because a lot of computer monitors out there just can't take advantage of the higher ones. This is not one of my present concerns.

      2. Lenses still matter. Horrifyingly, the lens and camera in your iPhone (8 or later) are good. It is now cheaper
      to buy several inexpensive 'Go-Pro' type sports cameras than to buy different lenses. Lots of good results come out of
      inexpensive DSLRs, but the lensing adds up FAST. For shop, wider is always better. Pleasantly, cheaper, too.
      Between my career and other long time hobbies, I know about lenses from the ones in my phone up to ones that cost $50,000 or more.

      3. Low light matters, as does high contrast ratio, for what you want to video. Frustratingly, there
      are numbers for this, but they're not useful for finding inexpensive things that work well.
      I do know about lighting. I have been taught by some of the best. And I do have an inexpensive method that is in progress.

      3.a Continuity is hard. Try to change as little as you can, if you can't do things in one shot. Lighting isn't easy,
      but keeping it the same is far harder. To that end, as BF says, do spend a bit on a couple of inexpensive 'photo lights'.
      Already discussed.

      4. Video is far more expensive than machining, and 'vintage' is bad, not good. This one is hard for me.
      More expensive than machining? Yes, and NO. I am working on the "no" side.

      5. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/ is a great place to go for specifications and a 'baseline' price check. I tend to buy from them, too.
      I have been using them for decades for both my own equipment and that of my employers.


      6. Sound is critical. In the shop, wear a mic close to your mouth. There are many reasons we use these things professionally,
      and anyone who says otherwise is a vidiot.
      Already discussed. I have already purchased two microphones and will probably buy more as my needs evolve. This is not on my present list of questions.
      6.a Pauses are CRITICAL. You can ALWAYS edit them out, but you can NEVER edit them in.
      When you think you're done, count to three and THEN say, 'Let's see how that looks', because:
      See below.

      7. Editing will suck your life. We figure it takes an hour to shoot a complicated minute of produced video, and
      that it may take several hours to edit that video minute perfectly. So keep it simple. TALK to yourself on
      video- "I liked that one" "Check the sound when the cutter chattered" "I think I shadowed the cutter when I said xxx" stuff like that.
      I have seen and been a part of editing processes that you just would not believe. I do plan on keeping things SIMPLE.

      7.a Editing software varies a LOT. Final Cut used to be a good standard, but then Apple got ahold of it. It still works, tho, and is good to learn on.
      I am looking into editing software. I plan to start with a simple and free one because I do not need nor plan on using any fancy effects. Nor do I think that the more advanced features, that may be attractive to those "...15yo (physically or mentally) telling me how to attract viewers..." will be of any use to me. I will move up as I see the need.

      8. Start doing early. Clamp the iPhone to something and try it. Clamp your decent Android to something and give it a try.
      Try to import video to an editing program, and see if it even CAN. See if you can make it work.
      You'll soon see what you need to work on. And that will also help you fix the biggest problems first.
      Unlike machining, a crash is usually just fixed by the delete key, or the undo button. So start playing.
      You may find you love shooting but hate editing. But your friend's kid LOVES editing, so now you have a partner.
      You may find you hate how you look on camera, but your friend makes a great model. So he machines and you film.
      You're great on film, but sound like a duck. So your brother narrates instead.
      It goes a thousand directions. And it's a bottomless pit.
      Sounds like my plan. But no partner. At least not at the present time. And I have already done some experimenting.

      t
      never wanted to have to do video, but eating is important.
      Paul A.
      SE Texas

      And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
      You will find that it has discrete steps.

      Comment


      • #18
        Most of your listed suggestions are already on my mind. I will add one more to your list: an INTRODUCTION which shows where we are going. Unlike those YouTube videos where you must watch the whole thing to see what is being made, I think you should ALWAYS show the finished item up front. That way the viewer can decide if he/she really wants to watch the whole thing.

        I learned that way back in high school or perhaps before that.

        Your friend's cardinal rule bears some consideration. It may be difficult in a shop video. And it would seem to me that there is a good case for having some still shots which allow the viewer enough time to study the details. Of course, I could point out those details and that would provide some motion.

        I purely hate seeing those seemingly endless shots showing a single hole being drilled or a diameter being reduced from 1" down to 1/4" on a lathe, 0.010" at a time. May I never, NEVER do that! Show the start for enough time to establish what is being done and then CUT to the end or to the next step.

        I already use backgrounds in my shop. I have purchased a number of plain white, shower curtain liners at the local dollar store and I often hang them behind things when taking still shots. I need to make that process easier with some rails that could be hung from the ceiling. But I also need to consider storage space for them when they are not in use. I just gotta sell some stuff. My old tube tester goes on E-bay TODAY!



        Originally posted by Rich Carlstedt View Post

        One of my best friends did videos ---shooting and editing for a TV Station and training videos for Manufacturers like Miller Welding etc.
        So I am spoiled as he taught me things that now make watching Youtube worse than having a tooth pulled . I can't watch many machining videos because they record the entire cut for example when running a lathe . Unless you need to point out a specific variable function, 4-5 seconds of a cut is all that is needed before going to the retract cycle. Long cuts are BORING , yet many "Shop" guys do it. They will drill a hole for 88 seconds.. Why ?
        So here is what I learned, and I believe will help you.

        1. Write a script...put it on paper --and follow it . Describe the steps you will take, the camera position , and the OBJECTIVE of that shot
        2. Clean the area you will shot, get rid of rags and non essential material to the subject matter. If the background is a convulsion of color or confusion , use a background cover or screen to maintain focus on the subject of the video - THIS is imperative if doing or showing very fine or detailed work !
        3. My friends CARDINAL rule . If the object moves, the camera is stationary, If the object is stationary, the camera moves . Nothing is more disconcerting than seeing a running gas engine for example and the camera being moved to the rhythm of the "Flight of The Bumble Bee" Learn that Tripods have a function ! And if you can't hold the camera steady , strap a 5 pound weight to your wrist and that will help believe it or not

        And lastly, One of my personal concerns with home made videos is sound ! I can't tell you how many time I have been told to " see youtube xxx" and when I do, I cannot hear the person with my PC volume all the way up , or they talk to fast, or they have music or other distractions to speech comprehension !.. They may think it is "Cool" but I am out of there.

        Have Fun
        Rich
        Paul A.
        SE Texas

        And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
        You will find that it has discrete steps.

        Comment


        • #19
          I am NOT overthinking it. And I am not overspending on it.

          ALL I was asking for was a place where I could get some very specific questions answered so I do not have to buy things over and over again. I am sure such BBs or discussion platforms must exist. I just wanted a recommendation for a good one.

          I do thank all for the responses here. Every little bit helps. And I will probably post some of the more unique things that I learn here as well as other places.



          Originally posted by polaraligned View Post
          I don't see the need to put too much thought into this. iPhones are used to make some great videos on YouTube. Don't think 4k will give you a better product, it will just give you a headache as the processing time is unreal. Stick to 1080. I use VideoPad for my editing and it is cheap at $49, and works well, and above all it is easy to use. Just start making some videos and you will see what works and what doesn't. Play around with some experimental videos and see what you like.
          Paul A.
          SE Texas

          And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
          You will find that it has discrete steps.

          Comment


          • #20
            I hope you don't stop posting your comments and advice on the forum. Too many people now obsessed with videos and posting "I did something trivial for five minutes see my half hour video here".
            There used to be someone on here who would post still photos in B&W. Real works of art perfectly lit and exposed not the point and click colour stuff most do and don't even have the sense to edit down to the size that fits the screen.

            Comment


            • #21
              I found some forums that might be helpful.

              https://www.dpreview.com/forums/1045

              https://www.videomaker.com/forums/

              https://yttalk.com/

              I don't have any experience with these, but they seem OK. I just use my Nikon CoolPix L22 camera which shoots 640x480 video, and it's adequate for most things. It has optical zoom and a macro setting which is important for close-ups of items and machining operations. I have been using various free programs such as Windows Movie Maker. I have probably a couple hundred videos on YouTube. Some are better than others. I have learned by doing over the last ten years or so, and several versions of editing software.

              https://www.youtube.com/user/PaulAndMuttley
              http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png
              Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
              USA Maryland 21030

              Comment


              • #22
                I will still be here.



                Originally posted by Baz View Post
                I hope you don't stop posting your comments and advice on the forum. Too many people now obsessed with videos and posting "I did something trivial for five minutes see my half hour video here".
                There used to be someone on here who would post still photos in B&W. Real works of art perfectly lit and exposed not the point and click colour stuff most do and don't even have the sense to edit down to the size that fits the screen.
                Paul A.
                SE Texas

                And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                You will find that it has discrete steps.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Post a link to your eBay, I might need something.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
                    ALL I was asking for was a place where I could get some very specific questions answered so I do not have to buy things over and over again. I am sure such BBs or discussion platforms must exist. I just wanted a recommendation for a good one.
                    One thing that’s helped me with that exact problem with still photography is to take some on-line courses & webinars that a local camera store offers (Hunts Photo & Video in Melrose MA USA, if anyone is interested). I’ve got acquainted with a couple of the instructors & they don’t mind the occasional question about stuff ... you might try something like that (and the source doesn’t have to be local - recently we had someone from NZ in a seminar).

                    frank

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I think the paraphrase "DAMMIT JIM! I'm only a home machinist! Not a video producer!" comes to mind...

                      I'm not big on videos. But I do enjoy still photography. When I wanted to join a photography forum I looked around same as I do for all my forums. I looked for good volume of posting to keep things lively. I looked at samples of the postings to see if the level of work was what I hoped for where I could advance my own skills through learning from others and perhaps add a few hints of my own to help some other folks. And after all this I joined this or that forum.

                      I used the same process for HSM. There's a good steady volume of postings to make things vibrant, good range of topics and I certainly saw that I could learn a fair amount from the other members here. It may not always show in my posts but I do pick up a lot of hints and see some great suggestions for alternative methods. Oh sure, there's often the usual smack talking. But I sort of expect that from the sort of personalities that have built their own shops up to do all this as a hobby or home money making shop or that operate their own farms or whatever. It takes a fairly strong personality to do these things.

                      I also think that despite the VBulletin name of the software used here that it's the members you're asking. Respectfully I would suggest that you're asking the wrong crowd. You don't see that many of us posting here that also have YT channels. So we are not really the sort that would generally have much knowledge of how to make your own video efforts become better. Or for that matter which of the video production forums out there are going to serve your needs. I think you would need to go forth with a search for "videography forums" or similar and dip your toe into a few of them to see which has the sort of content you're looking for. You might get an idea or two from those of us here that have done a few videos but for any sort of proper work you're going to want to look into more serious options. There's lighting, microphones, lenses and cameras to be considered. And if you're working alone monitors to allow for checking framing while you're actually recording to ensure you stay in frame. And that's more the things you'll learn from a proper videography discussion forum. Assuming you haven't already picked up a bunch of ideas from videography instructional videos on YT.
                      Chilliwack BC, Canada

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Tobias-B View Post

                        1. 1080p is fine. 30p or 1080i, with post- processing.
                        Be VERY wary of something that claims to be HD without telling you all the numbers.
                        Resolution of 1920x1080 is plenty, and anything more adds cubic time and data.
                        There's nothing wrong with 720p, either.
                        Standard quality on Youtube is 720p unless you are getting a lot of traffic.

                        Originally posted by Tobias-B
                        2. Lenses still matter. Horrifyingly, the lens and camera in your iPhone (8 or later) are good. It is now cheaper
                        to buy several inexpensive 'Go-Pro' type sports cameras than to buy different lenses. Lots of good results come out of
                        inexpensive DSLRs, but the lensing adds up FAST. For shop, wider is always better. Pleasantly, cheaper, too.
                        I've done most of my limited Youtube videos with an iPhone 5s and my current 7s. Video quality is fine, the two short falls are battery life if it's a video longer than 45 minutes and sound quality. The built in mic is fine if you are just filming action in a shop setting. Voice recording is lacking without an external mic.

                        As far as editing, iMovie maker works pretty well, even does limited effects.

                        I just need one more tool,just one!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
                          Most of your listed suggestions are already on my mind. I will add one more to your list: an INTRODUCTION which shows where we are going. Unlike those YouTube videos where you must watch the whole thing to see what is being made, I think you should ALWAYS show the finished item up front. That way the viewer can decide if he/she really wants to watch the whole thing.......

                          ....... And it would seem to me that there is a good case for having some still shots which allow the viewer enough time to study the details. Of course, I could point out those details and that would provide some motion.

                          I purely hate seeing those seemingly endless shots showing a single hole being drilled or a diameter being reduced from 1" down to 1/4" on a lathe, 0.010" at a time. May I never, NEVER do that! Show the start for enough time to establish what is being done and then CUT to the end or to the next step.
                          As for content...

                          I heartily agree with your idea of an introduction showing the finished product up front. Countless times I've scrolled to the last minute or two of a half hour video to check to see if it is something worth watching. GIve the viewer a peek at the item or the plan so they know where the video is going. Great idea!

                          And I totally agree with using some manner of trick to cut out the boring chip making. Cuts, fade out and back in or bursts of 25X speed are all possible and attractive options.

                          Turnwright used to be great at avoiding the needless boring filler. But a couple of years back he started padding out his videos with such things. I really liked his early videos but stopped watching them when things got to where a 30+ minute video only had about 3 minutes of interesting stuff and the rest was watching cutters moving through metal in the most boring manner possible. Yet he continued to get more and more subscribers. Not sure who's watching but more power to him I guess. I'm still subscribed but I don't watch his stuff any more unless it's something very worthy, And then there's a lot of scrolling to get to the good bits.

                          I also don't want or need a 15 minute update on the presenter's shop life or extended philosophizing on why they thought they needed to make whatever the topic item is. Short and sweet is the key.

                          So yeah, I like your ideas on how you'd do the videos. We don't all have the comedy talent of This Old Tony. Nor, I suspect, do we want to invest all the editing time into the video tricks TOT and Clickspring use in their videos. They really are good videos that are works of art in their own way. Meanwhile there's lots of others out there with well paced and decently well made videos with good lighting and not too confusing backgrounds.

                          Chilliwack BC, Canada

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            If you are referring to my comment about selling a tube tester, I only want it out of my shop and hopefully to a good home. It is not on E-bay yet and I will gladly give it to you or any of the members here if they will pay for the packing and shipping. It is complete with instructions and an updated (1960 ish) list of tubes and a number of adapters. I have a bunch of used tubes that I was going to include, some good and some not so. They will be included if that is desired. Oh, it does have some repairable damage to the wood box, but it does work. They built them well back then.



                            Originally posted by true temper View Post
                            Post a link to your eBay, I might need something.
                            Paul A.
                            SE Texas

                            And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                            You will find that it has discrete steps.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I don’t need a tube tester, but I thought you might have an eBay store with something that I could use. Just trying to help a brother out.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
                                I am NOT overthinking it. And I am not overspending on it.

                                ALL I was asking for was a place where I could get some very specific questions answered so I do not have to buy things over and over again. I am sure such BBs or discussion platforms must exist. I just wanted a recommendation for a good one.

                                I do thank all for the responses here. Every little bit helps. And I will probably post some of the more unique things that I learn here as well as other places.
                                Please, please, please give equal consideration to your audio quality. If you're going to the trouble, make your audio as good as your video. Poor quality audio can ruin good video.

                                Joe Pie is a good example of lousy audio quality (sorry Joe). It sounds like he keeps his microphone in the next room. I've mentioned this to him, and he acknowledges, but apparently just doesn't care. It's a shame.

                                Abom79 takes great care to get his audio "correct" and it shows (sounds).

                                Comment

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