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Collets vs Tool Holders - AKA: More R8 Mumbo Jumbo

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  • #16
    Originally posted by mickeyf View Post
    Buying a 5hp
    and R-8 brand new mill,
    instead of NMTB40,
    is like using Phillips head wood screws
    instead of Robertson head wood screws,
    just because you have a Phillips screwdriver.


    Yup. Learned this the hard way.
    Must be of the Canadian persuasion Eh?
    Keep keeping you stick on the ice ~!~!~!~

    In reality, it would be nice to have a Allen hex
    drive in everything across the board and the ocean.
    Allen hex drive wood screws ? Sign me up ! ! !

    -D
    DZER

    Comment


    • #17
      I use collets exclusively, and only one time had a large endmill pull out a bit. That was because I didn't pay attention to tightening it properly. As I mentioned before, I often do heavy hogging and have never had a problem other that that one time. Using tool holders takes up valuable Z space and adds unwanted leverage. (Or, for those who love the word 'rigidity', it reduces that).
      Last edited by chipmaker4130; 02-21-2021, 10:08 PM.
      Southwest Utah

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Bob La Londe View Post
        Do you have a machine with an R8 spindle? Do you put every tool in an R8 collet or do you use tool holders? Either set screw or collet tool holders. What pluses and minuses lead to your choices?
        The majority of my stuff is just repair work without high metal removal rates, so I stick with the collets in the R8 spindle. More time is spent on the set ups than the cutting for most jobs. I suppose if I need to do some heavy cutting then a set screw tool holder would be in order. Don't have any roughing end mills, but I should scoop some up if I find a good deal.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Doozer View Post

          Must be of the Canadian persuasion Eh?
          Keep keeping you stick on the ice ~!~!~!~

          In reality, it would be nice to have a Allen hex
          drive in everything across the board and the ocean.
          Allen hex drive wood screws ? Sign me up ! ! !

          -D
          Torx...... Allen strip too easily. Worse than Robertson (but they do not cam out like Robertson).
          2801 3147 6749 8779 4900 4900 4900

          Keep eye on ball.
          Hashim Khan


          It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

          Comment


          • #20
            Torx are better than Robertson by some amount. But up this way they are more expensive. Mind you Robertson for us up here north of the 48th is at least as common as Phillips is for folks south of the 49th. .... and we're BOTH stymied when we run across JIS which doesn't fit anything we have in the drawer.... Makes me want to fly over to Japan with a bucket load of Robertson and scatter them hither and yon and then stand back and watch the looks on their faces........ TAKE THAT JIS USERS ! ! ! !
            Chilliwack BC, Canada

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            • #21
              Speaking of torx... and since this whole topic seems to be more of a rant anyway....

              A while back when re-flooring my family room from carpet to vinyl plank I had to lay two layers of sub flooring to raise the level. A good buddy of mine lent me a stand up PAM screw drill. It used Torx screws in plastic clips at around $40C a box of 500. it was well worth it though. What a great tool for those of us that are older and have cranky knees and not all that great backs to boot. I think I want to marry PAM.... And by George I will if I have to do any other flooring of this sort ! ! ! The sloppy fit of the typical torx bit into the typical torx socket makes this system work I'm thinking. And I do believe that I read somwhere that the intended idea behind Torx was that it did not require precise fits. So it lent itself to automated feeding of the fasteners. But my memory often plays tricks on me....

              PAMFast AutoFeed Screw System (fastenmaster.com) If you're interested.

              Chilliwack BC, Canada

              Comment


              • #22
                For holding endmills, I still think the best system ever was the Clarkson Autolock type. A collet holds the body of the endmill, and an internal thread in the collet fits the threaded end of the end mill, holding it hard against a centre. Self tightening but never jams, zero chance of pulling out, slipping deeper in or not transmitting the torque. Enough of them still available on Ebay.

                For bigger stuff, Clarkson Dedlock holders offer a similar performance.

                Ian
                All of the gear, no idea...

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

                  Torx...... Allen strip too easily. Worse than Robertson (but they do not cam out like Robertson).
                  You would complain if they hung you with a new rope.
                  If you are stripping out Allen hex drive screws,
                  sit on your hands. Or stick to making flower arrangements.

                  -D
                  DZER

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    One thing to remember about R8 collets is they have only got 3 slots. They only hold shanks of exactly the same size as the collet, there is no tolerance like the er style.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by old mart View Post
                      One thing to remember about R8 collets is they have only got 3 slots. They only hold shanks of exactly the same size as the collet, there is no tolerance like the er style.
                      And the other thing to remember is that the workpiece doesn't need to pass all the way through the collet like it does with the ER series. Normally that's not a big deal but sometimes I'll end up with 1/2 or 2/3 grip engagement with certain lightly loaded tools.
                      Southwest Utah

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Ian B View Post
                        For holding endmills, I still think the best system ever was the Clarkson Autolock type. A collet holds the body of the endmill, and an internal thread in the collet fits the threaded end of the end mill, holding it hard against a centre. Self tightening but never jams, zero chance of pulling out, slipping deeper in or not transmitting the torque. Enough of them still available on Ebay.

                        For bigger stuff, Clarkson Dedlock holders offer a similar performance.

                        Ian
                        I have a pile of autolock cutters accumulated over the years. BUT have never used the actual system. Or even seen one for that matter. None of the shops I've ever worked in have had an autolock system. They of course work fine in R8 collets.

                        The only pull out I've ever had in an R8 has been getting greedy with high helix aluminum 3 flutes. I've also had them pull out of cat 40 er32 collet too. I now run them only in side lock holders and grind a small flat on the shank to prevent pull out. Have never had one slip or break since. I like using corncob rougher in R8 spindle, it's about the only time I use them anymore. REALLY makes a difference.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Doozer View Post

                          You would complain if they hung you with a new rope.
                          If you are stripping out Allen hex drive screws,
                          sit on your hands. Or stick to making flower arrangements.

                          -D
                          What kind of Dumb Bunny are you?........ you must never have had a stuck screw in anything......Sheesh.🙄🙄🙄🙄

                          As for flowers, I just grow 'em, others do the arranging.

                          Maybe you should try arrangements.... you seem to know a lot about it, could be an unsuspected talent.
                          Last edited by J Tiers; 02-22-2021, 11:07 AM.
                          2801 3147 6749 8779 4900 4900 4900

                          Keep eye on ball.
                          Hashim Khan


                          It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Okay guys that's enough. Let's get back to bashing me for buying a brand new five horsepower Mill with an R8 instead of a NT40.
                            *** I always wanted a welding stinger that looked like the north end of a south bound chicken. Often my welds look like somebody pointed the wrong end of a chicken at the joint and squeezed until something came out. Might as well look the part.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Bob La Londe View Post
                              I do have a tool grinder so adding a flat to a carbide tool is no big deal.
                              I just caught this in the OP.

                              I, and many other before me here have been using the edge of the same aluminum oxide wheel on a bench grinder to put small flats on straight shank carbide cutters for probably 20 years now. Never had a cutter break, never exploded the wheel, and that wheel has probably done a few thousands of flats by now over the years As well as sharpen many drills and HSS tools. The wheel is getting pretty small now. Might be time to replace it.

                              IMO you just need something small to keep the tool from slipping out. Try to avoid puting a sharp corner in the shank, but other than that, it's not mission critical that it be anything other than this. I stick the cutter in the holder, "find" the flat with the set screw, and pull down while tightening it. Is it theoretically perfect? NO. Does it work? YES. Flame suit on.


                              NOW we can get back to shaming you for buying an R8 machine instead of a 40taper lol. Just curious as to why though? Was the R8 spindle significantly cheaper? Already too invested in R8?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Ian B View Post
                                For holding endmills, I still think the best system ever was the Clarkson Autolock type. A collet holds the body of the endmill, and an internal thread in the collet fits the threaded end of the end mill, holding it hard against a centre. Self tightening but never jams, zero chance of pulling out, slipping deeper in or not transmitting the torque. Enough of them still available on Ebay.

                                For bigger stuff, Clarkson Dedlock holders offer a similar performance.

                                Ian
                                I got to use a Clarkson setup and I totally agree. And although I never checked it I think that given end mills would even hold registration between setups for making some small production runs. It really is a better way what with the collet to aid centering and the self locking feature.

                                And Dan? I think you might be in the market for a new wheel for the grinder?
                                Chilliwack BC, Canada

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