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Collets vs Tool Holders - AKA: More R8 Mumbo Jumbo

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  • #31
    Originally posted by BCRider View Post
    And Dan? I think you might be in the market for a new wheel for the grinder?
    I think it's got a few more years left in it . Might have to move that rock to a 6" grinder to squeeze some more life out of it though lol

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Bob La Londe View Post
      Okay guys that's enough. Let's get back to bashing me for buying a brand new five horsepower Mill with an R8 instead of a NT40.
      Just be very careful to get the drawbar tightened up to the max every time. And tell us which machine you are getting, please.

      I have a couple of Osborn Titanic II holders for threaded shank endmills. The system works just like Clarkson Autolock and Acramill. The cutters self tighten and cannot pull down. However, they have their disadvantages. It is not unknown for the threaded end to snap off, and the shank has to be steel. Threads in carbide would not be strong enough. I do have a few cutters with brazed on carbide inlays, straight and spiral flute which have the threads. I believe they are still made in Germany.
      Last edited by old mart; 02-22-2021, 01:10 PM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Dan Dubeau View Post

        NOW we can get back to shaming you for buying an R8 machine instead of a 40taper lol. Just curious as to why though? Was the R8 spindle significantly cheaper? Already too invested in R8?
        No. I actually have a little bit of r8 tooling, but when I started looking for prices on nt40 it wasn't that bad. I was prepared to go with an nt40 vectrax from msc, but in order to get everything I wanted I'd have to call them up and and detail all of the extra add-ons.

        I went with the South Bend from grizzly because it had everything I wanted included in a package price. I just hope it doesn't turn out to be a mistake. I wasn't able to find much on user quality assurance for the grizzly branded South bends, but I was able to find several people that thought the vectrax machines were decent. Ultimately the price was a little more for the vectrax, and I would have had to spend quite a lot of time wading through things and calling them up to get it set up the way I wanted. As they say, time is money.

        I also considered precision matthews for quite a bit less money than either the South Bend or the Vectrax, but they didn't have any in stock ready to ship close to what I wanted, and a number of people have reported lots of little annoyances with some of their machines. I do have a precision Matthew's lathe and I really had no problems with it, but there have been a fair number of other people who have reported various annoyances. the one thing that kept precision Matthews in the decision process till near the end was the fact that Matt is extremely proactive about customer service if you have a problem.

        *** I always wanted a welding stinger that looked like the north end of a south bound chicken. Often my welds look like somebody pointed the wrong end of a chicken at the joint and squeezed until something came out. Might as well look the part.

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        • #34
          I had a look at the South Bend mill that you are getting and it looks like one of the best manual mills on the market. I notice that it has two mechanical speeds and a Japanese VFD giving a 9:1 motor speed ratio. I looked up a similar motor and the expected output from a VFD was listed.

          https://inverterdrive.com/group/Moto...-2-B3-230-400/

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          • #35
            This guy? https://www.grizzly.com/products/sou...th-dro/sb1028f

            Nice looking Mill. Looks like pretty top o the line for a manual in 2021.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Dan Dubeau View Post
              This guy? https://www.grizzly.com/products/sou...th-dro/sb1028f

              Nice looking Mill. Looks like pretty top o the line for a manual in 2021.
              Yep. That's the one. I agonized over maybe spending twice that for a CNC version, but since it still wouldn't give me quite the envelope I need in a single setup,(I'd have to move the ram) it wasn't worth it to me. ...and it still wouldn't have the RPM for efficient fine detail work. Instead I will use this machine to build a small bridge mill that will give me the 20+ x 30+ I need for a particular industry spec mold plate I want to be able to make. If it works out I might build a couple of them, and retired or second op only the tiny little Speedmasters. I'd love a big bed mill for that, but it would break both my budgets. Electrical and financial.

              My first major project with it will be building a simple CNC router to replace the Chinese Noddle Router (limp like noodle) I used to use for wood plaques and awards.
              *** I always wanted a welding stinger that looked like the north end of a south bound chicken. Often my welds look like somebody pointed the wrong end of a chicken at the joint and squeezed until something came out. Might as well look the part.

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              • #37
                A big manual knee mill is a pretty versatile and handy thing to have around. I'm really glad I didn't end up getting rid of mine to fit the Tormach in. I'm sure it will earn it's keep in your shop.

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                • #38
                  This is a TG 150 collet that has a plunger for holding 1” Endmill on flat cut away that normally reserved for set screw,thought it is very ingenious design and the only one I have in my collection. Click image for larger version

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                  • #39
                    That's an interesting tip about the nail polish. I have always kept a bottle of inexpensive nail polish for use in the shop but had not thought of that one. Thanks!

                    I assume you also have some nail polish remover to clean up the collet and end mill.



                    Originally posted by Rich Carlstedt View Post
                    Many Years ago I screwed up a big Stainless part $$$$ because I used a 3/4" R8 collet. I was too lazy to put in a R8 3/4" Endmill "Holder" and the endmill was sucked down .010"
                    It happens ! So for expensive or critical work, and especially larger endmills , ( .500 + IMHO) or when dealing with SS, use a Holder.
                    So here are some things to do
                    With Collets, especially large stuff, get some RED Fingernail Polish and place a dab right at the juncture of the collet and the cutter shank after you tighten it. Nail Polish drys fast and HARD..now when milling
                    with the cutter, the juncture will appear to be a red pinkesh blurr, but it the endmill pulls , even a few thou. you will see a distinct thin silver line at that point . The nailpolish will "crack" and expose the cutter shank.
                    If using a Endmill Holder , always pull the cutter downward (or out when tightening the set screw !
                    This gives you the longest setting of the cutter and if it moves, it can only move upward in the Holder and thus saves your working depth. If you shoove is full depth in the Holder, you risk the cutter being pulled and the cut being deeper than wanted

                    Rich
                    Paul A.
                    SE Texas

                    And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                    You will find that it has discrete steps.

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                    • #40
                      Hi,

                      I've seen as many endmill holders, ER's and TG holders slip an endmill and ruin a part just as often as an R8 over the years. Everytime someone would come crying about a slipped endmill to me, it turned out the operator screwed up by not tightening the tooling properly - and that includes me. If you have trouble tightening your tooling correctly, then you might want to consider shrink fit tooling - a setscrew endmill holder won't save you.

                      What makes the R8 a good choice for Bridgeports is the limited number of collets needed, 6 will get you by since endmills can always be bought with standard diameter shanks and they are as common as dirt. New or used and at any price point you care to pay. And due to the wet noodle design of the Bridgeport head and turret, keeping your tooling as short as possible is always a good idea. And you can't get much shorter than holding the shank up inside the spindle rather than an inch or more below the spindle nose.

                      That said, I do have an R8 to ER30 adapter. With the more and more easy availability of metric endmills at good prices, it makes sense to have a "dual purpose" tooling system handy some days. But I'm under no illusion that I will never be able to run anything larger than a 1/2" or 13mm endmill in my benchtop mill in those ER collets and only at moderate feed rates. Those 34"x3/4" and 1 1/2"x3/4" endmills I have are still just fine in an R8 collet though.
                      If you think you understand what is going on, you haven't been paying attention.

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                      • #41
                        This is the 2 insert Maydown 50mm I bought cheaply with 24 inserts, all NOS. The reason I bought it was the very low profile which could come in handy. The inserts are for aluminium and could be resharpened by rubbing down the front face and using them in matched pairs.

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                        • #42
                          Please note that we will ship your order within the next 24 hours. We will e-mail you tracking information for your order after it ships.
                          It feels like its almost Christmas and I feel like an 8 year old. I was waiting on that e-mail before punching the buy button on some other tooling to go with it.

                          I've got fill in tooling for both collets and endmill holders enroute. I also ordered a "higher" dollar integral shank keyless chuck. I have a lot of drill chucks that might eventually find themselves moved onto R8 shanks. Now I need to decide about facing. I'm actually leaning towards making a giant flycutter and a bar to use the little SEHT (TDEX?) 43 inserts for aluminum, and just getting an arbor for the 3" facemill I use on the Hurco.
                          *** I always wanted a welding stinger that looked like the north end of a south bound chicken. Often my welds look like somebody pointed the wrong end of a chicken at the joint and squeezed until something came out. Might as well look the part.

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                          • #43
                            Now the question... better to remove the key or to leave it in? 3 HP scares me on R8, let alone 5.

                            If you do remove the key, might wanna mark your holder to spindle with some nail polish as well. Wouldn't want it galling up the spindle on heavy cuts.
                            21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
                            1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

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                            • #44
                              Shars.com is your friend for quality tooling at a reasonable price. I use eBay a lot as well. I have bought a lot of tooling from both places with good results.
                              Kansas City area

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Toolguy View Post
                                Shars.com is your friend for quality tooling at a reasonable price. I use eBay a lot as well. I have bought a lot of tooling from both places with good results.
                                I was going to start a thread the other day titled "What's Your Favorite 'Better Than Average' Import Tool Dealer?" and mention Shar's in the comments.
                                *** I always wanted a welding stinger that looked like the north end of a south bound chicken. Often my welds look like somebody pointed the wrong end of a chicken at the joint and squeezed until something came out. Might as well look the part.

                                Comment

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