Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

OT Modern vehicle engine and transmission longevity

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Originally posted by Joel View Post
    Nope, they are putting out what people *think* they want (need - ha!), and what makes them the most money.
    The customers are the ones who are 'out of their gourds'. There is generally no obligation to play along.
    True, that's another way to look at it. I work in a semi truck shop, if I wanted a big truck I would have bought one from my employer. I remember doing farm labor with the old trucks from the 1970's. They were much easier and more realistic to deal with.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post

      Aaaaaggghhhh CRAP they did away with the 5-speed? Damn that's frustrating. My dad had one yrs ago with the 4.0 V6 and the 5-speed, great little truck.

      .........
      No, you can still get the diesel 5 speed.

      You DO need to be in europe. But they are made
      2801 3147 6749 8779 4900 4900 4900

      Keep eye on ball.
      Hashim Khan


      It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by MattiJ View Post
        I don't know about engines sold in US but European chain driven engines have been total clusterf*u ck for last 15 years.

        BWM put the chain to the tranny end of the engine and to replace it you need to pull off the engine. These have been failing at less than 60k miles and chain replacement is 2000-3000 usd after warranty.
        VW moved back to belt in some models. (and to sintered belt pulleys that turn to rust pits here and eat the belt alive)
        Ford uses belt in oil bath! with 240 000km or 10 year replacement interval.

        Turbos have been non-existing problem compared to camshaft drive.
        How do auto companies get away with that and still stay in business (BMW) they also have engine blocks made out of silly putty and all their head studs pull in short order (again BMW) why do people keep buying POS like that?

        I remember one of the worst timing belt designs I think I ever seen, was a Land rover or range rover or some damn thing --- had three timing belts and the dealer wanted 1400 USD to replace, I think I did it for a friend for 450, anyways --- DOHC V-6 so 4 cams,,, under the front cover was a conventional timing belt layout but they only protruded the intake cam sprockets, then to drive the exhaust cams they jutted out the back side of the engine with another set of intake sprockets with little mini timing belts that connected the intakes to the exhaust cam sprockets and all back there totally jammed up against the firewall, so three belts to fail --- and 7 places to leak oil, the crank seal of course and the two main intake cam drives, then two intake cam drives in the back along with the two exhaust,,, These vehicle brands names are mud, yet people continue to pay a premium for them to this day, I just don't get it...

        Comment


        • #79
          the last bmw e39 i fixed had 270k km and the chain looked like new.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by dian View Post
            the last bmw e39 i fixed had 270k km and the chain looked like new.
            Older chain designs were often bulletproof but at some point BMW changed to cheaper/more efficient design.

            https://www.themechanicdoctor.com/le...e-bmw-engines/

            I don’t know about recent models if they have improved the design
            Location: Helsinki, Finland, Europe

            Comment


            • #81
              'Modern engines and drivetrains' translates to well machined, close tolerances but moving toward not economically viable to repair or rebuild.

              Vehicles plummet in value, replacing the engine or trans on a 10 year old car simply doesn't make sense for most. A typical 10 year old car has paint blowing off in sheets, blistering clear coat, exploding plastic interior, dirty, uncleanable interior, worn out seats, sagging headliner, failing electrics on all the power accessories and electrical connections everywhere that are at the end of their life.

              A friend bought a Ford hybrid, don't remember the model. New something like $30K, she bought at at 2 years old for $12K, drove it for 2 years till slightly over 100K miles, tranny died. $8K to replace...more than the car is worth in only 4 years.

              The car racket is what keeps most people in debt, and never getting anywhere.
              Last edited by cijuanni; 02-25-2021, 10:54 AM.

              Comment


              • #82
                Even the legendary toyota 22-RE small truck engine had it's problems after some miles, depending some would go out as early as 125,000 - 150,000 miles - others would make it a quarter million...

                first starts with the tell tale rattle upon start up --- then a constant loose rattle at idle when oil pressure is low and the cam is subject to "jossling" as the valve springs resist and then propel the cams rotation, then the inevitable chain contacting the timing cover and eating away into it, then due to design getting into the water pumps feed coolant jacket, then coolant under 10 PSI or more of pressure immediately gushing into the oil pan and the sumps the first thing to pick it up because oil floats on water/coolant, so it's a direct feed to the rods and mains and if your driving at typical speeds you still got "fake oil pressure" so no light... of course we all know where this is going...

                Belts have their problems too but in comparison if you stay on top of them they are a much better system, Im already seeing what's happening with the newer chain type engines and it's such a repair bill people are just dumping them off on other poor slobs,,, so be aware when buying --- try to start engines that have not just been ran in fact if you have the option tell them that you want to start it cold and you will be checking the temp with your hand, also pull the dip stick and instead of just checking how clean and full the oil level is see if it seems unreasonably thick - that's another way to cover for a worn timing chain system --- most are hydraulic tensioned and it helps cover for noise and also the thicker oil takes up more space in all those links and pins and it all adds up...

                of course --- you will have the chain crowd people that will just ignore the noises and keep driving till failure - and in that case it's going to be catastrophic and most likely the car will get scraped...

                Comment


                • #83
                  Here's one of my pet peeves for totaling an otherwise good 10 year old vehicle that still has years of service life left in it, any vehicle, take your pick.

                  Try getting your heater core replaced on any vehicle built in the last 30 years. When the shop labor rates are at $100-$135+ per hour and the car or truck is literally built around the HVAC system it doesn't take long to make replacing a $35-$80 component painful at best.

                  A lot of the newer vehicles that use thru-bolts that enter from the side for occupant crash protection will also require the removal of both front doors in addition to anything inside the vehicle that doesn't look like a heater core.

                  Spoke to a lady the other day that had an issue with her late model Ford's HVAC system. It was deemed non-dealer serviceable, something to do with blend doors, however luckily for her it was under warranty.
                  The normal retail price of this part would have been 4000 USD, plus labor!

                  Keep your coolant fresh guys, no matter how clean it looks, sooner or later it's going to turn into a battery, and with painful results.

                  Click image for larger version

Name:	HeaterCoreJobStripped.jpg
Views:	142
Size:	147.4 KB
ID:	1930479

                  Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                  Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                  Location: British Columbia

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Willy View Post

                    Keep your coolant fresh guys, no matter how clean it looks, sooner or later it's going to turn into a battery, and with painful results.


                    Very good advice --- at least gives you best odds of survival, unfortunately in most situations iv seen with heater core failures nowadays it's the plastic side bosses that crack due to the heating and cooling cycles and getting brittle, there's no reason for these types of designs as Iv also seen some with nice lower access doors, undue two screws - pop the cover, undue a couple internal bolts that hold the core in place - pop the hood and undue the intake and exit heater hoses and pop the old defective unit out and install the new one... ahhh if everything could be that simple...

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Willy View Post
                      Click image for larger version

Name:	HeaterCoreJobStripped.jpg
Views:	142
Size:	147.4 KB
ID:	1930479
                      1/2 way there, might as well part it out. LOL

                      Yep, on GMs the blend door steel axle pivots on a plastic housing. The housing wears, the blend door axle falls out of it's pivot = jammed blend door.
                      Have to rip out the dash to get the housing out to repair or replace.

                      When you do dive into the dash little plastic nubbins break off, rock hard anti-rattle foam falls out everywhere, oddball plastic wiring loom ties need cutting/breaking and the dash will never go back as nice as it was before you took it out.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                        I will add something of recent change in most engines that is going to create more problems in certain area's and in fact already is, although to allot of people it makes things more maintenance free "for awhile" and as we know lots of people are all about that nowadays,,, can't have maintenance, can't be bothered to take care of your engine, so now we got spark plugs that stay in for such long intervals (100,000 miles!) that they "weld to the head" and pull aluminum threads when you finally do have to remove them,,, and forget the timing belt because they only last as long as entire engines of yesteryear used too, again can't be bothered every 100,000 miles to change a timing belt...

                        So --- after taking a short siesta the almighty timing chain is making a huge comeback simply for the fact that people are lazy and don't want to have to worry about doing anything to their engines --- ever,,, Although the fact is - is timing chains and all the guides and tensioner's wear out too, and even though they "generally" go for longer duration's when they do need replacement they can be up to 3 or 4 times the expense --- even though they last on the average of about double the duration of what a belt does...

                        but there's something even more sinister about them, and it's the fact that there is no other engine component in a typical IC engine that produces more hash in the oil than that of a timing chain... Nothing even comes close,,, and in fact just about every timing chain engine that iv done an oil change on I can take the oil and if it's a sunny day hold the pan up and see that all too familiar very light metallic hue, common practice of mine just to see what's up, these are particulates that oil filters could only dream of filtering out -- yet im sure the filter has caught the bigger chunks, and im sure the break in period of a chain creates allot as all those surfaces under loading and pivoting has too, the smaller particulates start loading up the soft babbit material in rod and main bearings from day one,,, and yeah you hope they get totally buried or this will in turn start wearing at your crank...

                        and then the chain will kinda hit it's "happy spot" for quite awhile --- this is where everything is polished and also the chain is not stretched and meshes with the sprockets almost perfectly,
                        this is the honeymoon stage where everything is alright with the world,,, no rattles on start up --- even oil changes can look "kinda" normal,,,
                        but then the inevitable happens --- because there's so many links you see, and they all add up, and all it takes is just the slightest stretch, then two critical things happen --- the chain no longer pulls as a unit using all engagement rollers on the sprocket, that means all forces are left up to the one lead engagement roller, now the wear starts to happen at an incredibly accelerated rate --- the second thing is that the next engagement roller that's in line to take the load is now at an interference pitch with the sprockets tooth, this also accelerates wear and the whole thing now starts to snowball... through the life cycle of a chain the amount of material lost can create a situation to where the chain can be up to an inch longer than it's original length! this is allot of material, so when most other engine components are "settling in" and actually create less and less hash in the oil - the timing chain is the unwanted gift that keeps on giving,

                        kinda makes just changing an external belt once in a great while look good huh?

                        Im a technician - and I also look at the finer details, so I don't mind putting in a little extra effort here and there for a design that's actually superior - the belt,,, and yeah as you can guess, when I bought my little 1 liter pea shooter I was impressed with everything on the vehicle until I seen it had a chain, pretty much a "oh damn" moment, it's rattling a little on start up and it's got less than 150,000 miles on it, and sure enough when I do oil changes I see that nice little metallic hue,,, timing chains suck... not only that - push one to the point of failure and they will totally destroy your engine - talking broken cams and most likely scraped block and heads as after breaking the cams it will wrap around the crank and disintegrate everything in it's path...

                        ok timing chain rant off...
                        Boomer I must have had a exceptional good chain in my 94 GMC 454,the water pump failed at 450000 km and my GM dealer was replacing it.The service manager
                        (very close personal friend) strongly suggested since they were 70% disassembled to install new chain,I said go for it.When I picked truck up he explained the chain showed virtually no wear comparing it to new one that they installed,he said that was very rare.Engine had Mobil 1 full synthetic since the start till accident at 560000 km.The same friend suggested warming engine up even in summer temps so truck never moved till it idled for at least 5 min even on hottest summer days.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Is the "94" 454 a pushrod engine? anotherwords real short chain from crank to cam under a little cover VS one that goes all the way up to SOHC or DOHC's big difference if so but yeah great miles out of even the former style...

                          BTW good choice in oil...

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                            Is the "94" 454 a pushrod engine? anotherwords real short chain from crank to cam under a little cover VS one that goes all the way up to SOHC or DOHC's big difference if so but yeah great miles out of even the former style...

                            BTW good choice in oil...
                            Yes it’s a pushrod style with short chain,this was first vehicle I using Mobil 1 Oil in.Was at Farm Machinery Show and chatted with a fellow at Mobil booth,he said a farmer had stopped by and had over 900000 km on a older 350 GM using Mobil 1.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              in the u.s. "fully sythetic" is a sales pitch and doesnt relate to tribological properties. if im not mistaken, a group III basestock oil is still allowed to be called "fully synthetic". just saying.

                              (european mobile 1 is quite different from what it is in the states.)

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by dian View Post
                                in the u.s. "fully sythetic" is a sales pitch and doesnt relate to tribological properties. if im not mistaken, a group III basestock oil is still allowed to be called "fully synthetic". just saying.

                                (european mobile 1 is quite different from what it is in the states.)
                                We had a discussion on here awhile back - Im pretty sure Willy (the oil guy) told us that mobile 1 and amsoil are the only two mainstream oils in the USA that you can buy that start with a base stock 5, I believe I added to the conversation that redline is also basestock 5 but granted not as readily available as the other two, mobile 1 being the easiest to get because you can just go to wal-mart and get it...

                                if there's a correction on this id like to know cuz like TTT mobile 1 is all I been using... I switched to it from castrol just because of that write up...

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X