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  • Van man, What are those smaller Eaton roadrangers?
    610 or 613? Ever see one? Would love to buy one for a project.

    -D
    DZER

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Doozer View Post
      Van man, What are those smaller Eaton roadrangers?
      610 or 613? Ever see one? Would love to buy one for a project.

      -D
      Yeah, we've got a few road rangers sitting out back at work, dunno about 610 vs 613. They were working pulls from scrapped trucks. The other guy in the shop is the mechanic, I'm the fabricator -- but sometimes we trade places. A roadranger is about the same size as the old chevy 350, and about the same weight at least. The ones I've driven personally were made for off-road semis -- many people do not realize that the roadrangers mostly do NOT have overdrive. They are all underdrive gears for strength reasons. Used to be a 13.5:1 first gear. Hope this helps.

      You can usually find a rebuildable core for around a grand. Casey's truck salvage on Transit Rd would prolly sell you one for around 1200. The rebuild isn't much different than a car, except it has multiple counter shafts for the different ranges. With the correct SAE bellhousing, they bolt right into the late model Dodge Ram Cummins. Might have to clearance the floor with a gas axe tho.

      Groovy semi physics: Watch one take off at a stoplight some day. The available torque at the drive wheels is usually around 90,000 ft-lbs. You can watch the entire chassis flex as it absorbs it -- they are designed this way so that they can get moving like unwinding a spring. The frames are riveted out of hi strength low alloy (do not weld in certain areas)

      EDIT to add: you can make a decent buck on the side rebuilding them. Say 1200 for a core and another 350 for a kit, sell the rebuild for 8k. Its normally a million-mile tranny between rebuilds. You can use an empty housing for a keg fridge.
      Last edited by nickel-city-fab; 02-26-2021, 11:54 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Doozer View Post
        I want you to stop commenting on my posts Jerry.
        Just stop replying to me. I don't want to hear it.
        I will extend you the same courtesy and not comment on yours.
        Leave me the heII alone.

        -D
        But why? I don't hate you...... I do not think you are stupid, just get OVER it.
        Last edited by J Tiers; 02-27-2021, 12:37 AM.
        2801 3147 6749 8779 4900 4900 4900

        Keep eye on ball.
        Hashim Khan


        It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Doozer View Post
          Wow, I am such a freaking idiot.
          You are right Jerry. I have no idea what I am talking about.
          Thanks for correcting me yet again, because I am just a brainless retard
          that posts here. What ever would I do if I did not have you to give the
          right answer all the time ? ? Should I punch myself in the balls, just
          for you Jerry? Oh please set me straight, All I do is bla bla bla untill
          you step in with the right answer yet again, How can we pay honor
          to you for helping us see the light so brightly? ?

          -D
          Oh, don't be freaking silly......

          I'm not commenting on your intelligence, you seem to me to be a well above average sort, possibly a mechanical engineer.

          I just was commenting that the one in the Ranger seems to be different from the way they used to be (which, by the way I agree is how you said). A lot of things are different now that the makers have stuck a computer in to control everything. So they have the interlock between the engine and tranny by computer....

          That computer crap might affect longevity, probably reducing the time before it needs a part. The S10 had computerized antilock brakes.... guess what went out.... yep, the computer.

          That has nothing to do with your intelligence. Might be more of a comment on the designer's intelligence.........
          2801 3147 6749 8779 4900 4900 4900

          Keep eye on ball.
          Hashim Khan


          It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

          Comment


          • I suspect the designers are just doing what the marketers tell them to. Even when they know the design is $#T. I've gone thru that myself at work, the almighty buck rules everything. (FWIW, Dooz actually *is* an engineer)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post
              I suspect the designers are just doing what the marketers tell them to. Even when they know the design is $#T. I've gone thru that myself at work, the almighty buck rules everything. (FWIW, Dooz actually *is* an engineer)
              Yeah, marketing, I used to swear those folks all had red horns and a tail.

              But it isn't all marketing..... There are elegant simple solutions, and there are solutions made up of overlapping complex systems that don't always work well together, and become nearly impossible to troubleshoot.

              It seems that the newer crop of engineers always opt for the more complex system, the one that seems to have subsystems added just to counteract the bad effect of other subsystems, and then other ones to fix what those added ones mess up. It's a wonder that some of the systems actually work fairly well.

              I figured Doozer is an engineer, he has the engineering approach (the good one, not the one I mentioned above).
              2801 3147 6749 8779 4900 4900 4900

              Keep eye on ball.
              Hashim Khan


              It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

                Yeah, marketing, I used to swear those folks all had red horns and a tail.

                But it isn't all marketing..... There are elegant simple solutions, and there are solutions made up of overlapping complex systems that don't always work well together, and become nearly impossible to troubleshoot.

                It seems that the newer crop of engineers always opt for the more complex system, the one that seems to have subsystems added just to counteract the bad effect of other subsystems, and then other ones to fix what those added ones mess up. It's a wonder that some of the systems actually work fairly well.

                I figured Doozer is an engineer, he has the engineering approach (the good one, not the one I mentioned above).
                James Watt (of steam engine fame) said: "The supreme excellency in machinery is in it's simplicity"
                I think the crappy modern designs happen because they are given such conflicting requirements with a low, low budget. And often it's far cheaper to do something electronically, and combine parts with completely unrelated functions (BMW). And they need to get product out the door right now, so they can start next years...

                Example: a few yrs back when everybody was trying to make EPA Tier 4 , cummins decided to move the ECU into the body of the injection pump. Theory was that the fuel flow would cool the computer, etc. Which it does, until the cheapo 3rd-world electric lift pump fails, cutting off supply to the injector pump. ECU fries in seconds, necessitating a $3500 injector pump. All because of a $30 lift pump.

                In my own designs, I prefer everything to be as mechanical as possible, much like cars from the 60's.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post

                  Yeah, we've got a few road rangers sitting out back at work, dunno about 610 vs 613. They were working pulls from scrapped trucks. The other guy in the shop is the mechanic, I'm the fabricator -- but sometimes we trade places. A roadranger is about the same size as the old chevy 350, and about the same weight at least. The ones I've driven personally were made for off-road semis -- many people do not realize that the roadrangers mostly do NOT have overdrive. They are all underdrive gears for strength reasons. Used to be a 13.5:1 first gear. Hope this helps.

                  You can usually find a rebuildable core for around a grand. Casey's truck salvage on Transit Rd would prolly sell you one for around 1200. The rebuild isn't much different than a car, except it has multiple counter shafts for the different ranges. With the correct SAE bellhousing, they bolt right into the late model Dodge Ram Cummins. Might have to clearance the floor with a gas axe tho.

                  Groovy semi physics: Watch one take off at a stoplight some day. The available torque at the drive wheels is usually around 90,000 ft-lbs. You can watch the entire chassis flex as it absorbs it -- they are designed this way so that they can get moving like unwinding a spring. The frames are riveted out of hi strength low alloy (do not weld in certain areas)

                  EDIT to add: you can make a decent buck on the side rebuilding them. Say 1200 for a core and another 350 for a kit, sell the rebuild for 8k. Its normally a million-mile tranny between rebuilds. You can use an empty housing for a keg fridge.
                  The reason a Roadranger has twin countershafts is to balance the torque load inside the case, the range and splitter sections are another part of the transmission.

                  Think of a conventional single countershaft transmission where the mainshaft handles all of the thru-put torque, meanwhile it and the counertshaft are trying to get away from each other due to the radial torque load though the gear sets. This creates an enormous load on both bearings, clearances, and and gear pairs that should ideally maintain proper gear tooth contact. More torque means either bigger and more robust components, or dividing the torque between multiple smaller components.

                  On a twin countershaft transmission the mainshaft still handles all of the thru-put torque just as before but it now divides the torque through two paths while also lessening the load on the mainshaft itself. The mainshaft now sees almost zero radial thrust loads because it is centered between the two countershafts. This allows smaller, lighter and cheaper gear pairs and gives a more responsive shift from the air servos.

                  Amazing amount of continuous torque transfer capability through those gearboxes. Have pulled hard for hours while putting all 2200 lbs ft of torque to the ground maxed out on gvw. Nothing like taking off from an uphill stop while trying to lift 140,000 lbs and seeing the whole unit flex when the left wheel comes off of the ground. Really makes you appreciate the engineering and strength inherent to what's inside that 750 lb box.
                  Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                  Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                  Location: British Columbia

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Willy View Post
                    The reason a Roadranger has twin countershafts is to balance the torque load inside the case, the range and splitter sections are another part of the transmission.
                    Right, I remember that one. They sold it as an achievement in all actuality they were fixing the cars they sent out. All the rest had the "new" filters. JR
                    My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

                    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JRouche View Post

                      Right, I remember that one. They sold it as an achievement in all actuality they were fixing the cars they sent out. All the rest had the "new" filters. JR
                      ?????

                      Am I missing something or was this response directed towards another thread?
                      Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                      Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                      Location: British Columbia

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Willy View Post

                        ?????

                        Am I missing something or was this response directed towards another thread?
                        Im sorry Willy, I was caught up with a different issue, the filters. My bust. JR
                        My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

                        https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

                        Comment


                        • Just a note on road rangers as the thread drifts from the subject, and I'm no expert by any stretch. I too would love to build a diesel pickup with one. They are available in overdrive models. To keep the size (relatively) small look for the RTO 610 or RTO 6610 ten speed models. The O means overdrive. The 6610 has gears that are slightly more beveled and are quieter. These have the overdrive IIRC of about 20%.

                          *The 13-15-18 speed models are seemingly bigger than the pickup truck and weigh almost as much as the pickup so don't bother with them.

                          Comment


                          • Ford put 10 speeds in the Ranger, and F-150 as an automatic. It works well, where the Colorado and Nissan I test drove were screaming their tiny engines, the Ranger is humming along at 2700 rpm or less.

                            Cruising speed is about 1900 rpm on the highway. And, as mentioned, if you do not floor it, you are in 5th at 30 mph. Just got an average MPG of just under 26 driving 600 miles coming north.
                            2801 3147 6749 8779 4900 4900 4900

                            Keep eye on ball.
                            Hashim Khan


                            It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                              Ford put 10 speeds in the Ranger, and F-150 as an automatic. It works well, where the Colorado and Nissan I test drove were screaming their tiny engines, the Ranger is humming along at 2700 rpm or less.

                              Cruising speed is about 1900 rpm on the highway. And, as mentioned, if you do not floor it, you are in 5th at 30 mph. Just got an average MPG of just under 26 driving 600 miles coming north.
                              Odd thing is, that's pretty much how my 2012 colorado drives -- I can get it in 5th (stick shift) at 30 and it pulls hard. 60 MPH is right around 2000 RPM. Power peaks at 3000. I think that using 3.73 gears with the Asin-Warner AX-15 transmission is pretty ideal. Truck gets 26 MPG on the highway.

                              It's one of the last "small" S-10's. The new colorados are just .... ugly, and WAY too big.

                              Comment


                              • I know two people who have had failures of push button hand brakes (parking brake), one of them dumped VW for Seat when he changed cars because it had a cable operated brake.

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