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O.T. Kids and lack of machines, school violence

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  • O.T. Kids and lack of machines, school violence

    Just read a morning clip about an averted lunchroom shooting in Winslow Township, NJ.

    When are we going to get it into our collective heads that our kids need more than either A) pushing video game buttons or B) sports ?

    You've got a generation of young women who sit and watch, chatting among themselves, while the dolts they are with sit elbow to elbow killing, raping and pillaging on the big screen.

    Our kids need to get their hands into some REAL things, not just pretty simulations on screen.

    Any schools that still have their shops open and active have my heartfelt thanks. I think college prep HS are a big culprit here too as they are frequently devoid of any REAL things to do with your hands. Den

  • #2
    i have always blamed it on not being able to work on cars. that is waht kept me out of trouble. i was working on my car or working to get money to work on it. or i would help my father work on his truck or car.
    now if there is a car in the yard you have a code enforcment officer knocking on the door.

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    • #3
      It's probably just an effect of crowding.

      When animals are crowded together, they start fighting. That's a way for them to be forced to spread out a bit over more territory. It's why our ancestors came here. it's why there are tribal people living in inhospitable areas.

      There isn't any more room.

      Look for fighting etc to get worse.
      1601

      Keep eye on ball.
      Hashim Khan

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      • #4
        No room?? Pffft...

        There are more counties today in "fly over country" (Read: Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, SD, ND) that are classified as 'frontier'* than 120 years ago. There's plenty of abandoned homesteads, homes and other living quarters available where I'm at. Problem is, ya can't make any $$$ out here and living in this area might actually require some WORK.

        The space is available for anyone who wants it.


        *Frontier is a governmental classification term based on population.

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        • #5
          I am a high-school kid - 17 years old - and i absolutely agree. Generally speaking i'm in the AP/honors route for classes and such so most of my friends aren't really the trouble maker types. Nevertheless, it surprises me that some of my friends who can memorize equations and etc and absolutely rock at math really stink in physics and other courses that require some common sense and practical thought. I think its because alot of kids my age start to almost loose touch with reality when they spend the majority of thier time playing video games, sports, or studying.

          "now if there is a car in the yard you have a code enforcment officer knocking on the door." I've got a total of 6 letters from our homeowner's association about various projects inlcuding forts when i was in elementary school (we were in a new neighborhood so there was plenty of scrap plywood and two by fours to be had), then my two story trebuchet and then my go-karts. Now i've got a '77 chevy truck on my driveway in varying states of driveability. I'm almost affraid to rip into it too much and make it obvious that its not driveable because then i'm certain will get a letter of fine...

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          • #6
            I kind of agree with the "overcrowding theory" of the schools, when you have too many people in any given area, the increased "friction" results in "I'll get mine, screw the rest" attitude to dominate. Even when they are physically crowded together, most young people are growing up increasingly mentally and emotionally isolated; fewer siblings, extended family, and a general lack of community life.

            I chose a place without too many "upity busybody" neighborhood rules, but as more move from the "big city" they bring the "big city" attitudes. It sure ain't a pretty sight when some "new resident" thinks that "popping" off a few 9mm rounds will settle an issue, and the local WWII/Korean vets (mostly) come back with significantly fewer, well placed .30-06 rounds. An armed society is a polite society, no?
            Today I will gladly share my experience and advice, for there no sweeter words than "I told you so."

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            • #7
              Overcrowding?



              Well, someone has to disagree, and this time it looks like it's gonna be me.

              I don't think the problem lies with overcrowding. I was in Tokyo for a few days a couple of weeks ago, and if the problem was crowding, I would have returned from a war zone.

              As with problem faced by a society or nation, the reasons aren't simple. Regarding the issue of "overcrowding", it's not a cause of violence in Tokyo because of the culture. Everyone is encouraged to be a small and useful part of the society, not a rugged individualist.

              Now, combine crowding in a society like the US, and you have other issues. We put a premium on individual rights, being unique, our own personal space, freedom of expression, etc. Overcrowding can have an impact on all these things. So it stands to reason that if these things are more important to you, you might want to avoid big cities.

              I suspect that many of the problems we face today stem from people or organizations that don't take personal responsibility. We get blamed for it most in the US, but it's not just us. Sure, there are numerous examples of litigation that point this out. But I'm not inclined to let Zacharius Mussoui slide for his part in the 9/11 conspiracy just because he had a lousy childhood. I don't think the problems of the Palestinians are entirely caused by the US and Israel. Anyone remember a guy named Arafat?

              I don't think Columbine was caused by violent video games, the NRA's lobbying interests, or people that annoy Michael Moore. How about some parents that were asleep at the switch? How about some really screwed up kids?

              Is it just me, or have a lot of people become a little to PC and "sensitive"?
              The curse of having precise measuring tools is being able to actually see how imperfect everything is.

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              • #8
                After spending 31 years working in a school system. I can tell you the biggest problem is the parents. Parents not teaching right or wrong. Parents not explaining that the stuff in the movies and TV is make believe. ECT. I can't tell you how many times I have been told by a parent that you don't have to tell a child that they should stay out of the street, off of somebody elses property!
                They looked at me like I was nuts when I would tell them that children do not know right from wrong with out being told and explain things to them.
                Most parents are to busy worring who is doing what to whom on the lastest sit com or sports jerk
                Glen
                Been there, probably broke it, doing that!
                I am not a lawyer, and never played one on TV!
                All the usual and standard disclaimers apply. Do not try this at home, use only as directed, No warranties express or implied, for the intended use or the suggested uses, Wear safety glasses, closed course, professionals only

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TECHSHOP
                  I kind of agree with the "overcrowding theory" of the schools, when you have too many people in any given area, the increased "friction" results in "I'll get mine, screw the rest" attitude to dominate. Even when they are physically crowded together, most young people are growing up increasingly mentally and emotionally isolated; fewer siblings, extended family, and a general lack of community life.

                  I chose a place without too many "upity busybody" neighborhood rules, but as more move from the "big city" they bring the "big city" attitudes. It sure ain't a pretty sight when some "new resident" thinks that "popping" off a few 9mm rounds will settle an issue, and the local WWII/Korean vets (mostly) come back with significantly fewer, well placed .30-06 rounds. An armed society is a polite society, no?
                  HEHEHEHE!!! I like the way this guy thinks!! Amen brother. A FEW, Well Placed .30-06 rounds, from say..an M1, would definately solve at least 8 problems.

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                  • #10
                    BTW Kansas farmer, Kudos on the Right to carry bill in Ne.

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                    • #11
                      Parents and the education are to blame, Kids are taught to demand all kinds of nonsense to build their self-esteem, they are taught that they should be given respect but have no idea of what the concept means ( I can do and say what I want but if you do it to me that's disrespectful).
                      Children are not allowed to be kids either because of silly safety rules ( bicycle helemts etc, these tend to give children a false sense of security which leads to not learning that stupid thing hurt and you shouldn't do them).
                      And then we have teachers who don't care if 7 year old johnny can read so long as he is aware that it's ok to be a fag even though he doesn't know what a fag is. There is also the teaching practice of demanding kids be put on drugs rather than enforcing discipline.
                      Non, je ne regrette rien.

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                      • #12
                        Wirecutter, Your comments on Japanese high density living is exactly what crossed my mind ... both China and Japan live in high density family apartments and you don't see them slaughtering each other.

                        Both of those countries STILL raise kids with ENORMOUS respect for the family and elders. We are almost devoid of respect in this country.

                        It's said to watch Chinese friends of mine trying to raise their teens with those same old values and then watch those kids absorb the crap behavior that their "native" peers demonstrate to them.

                        Bob308, I agree that working on cars helped lots of kids back when. First you had to get it running, then you had to fix the rust holes, then you had to get it running again Then you had to work, or get back to work, to pay for the Bondo and finance your trips to the junkyard.

                        Den

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                        • #13
                          I believe that it's not a matter of overcrowding, or social pressure, it's a simple matter of Manners! When I was a much younger lad, if I, or one of my friends stepped out of line, we were jumped on by the nearest adult in the neighborhood. Sometimes, depending on the offense, we were dragged by an earlobe to the nearest parent to be dealt with. But, the bottom line is that we were taught to respect other people and their property. It boils down to a simple matter of respect for others and things that don't belong to you. If the law would allow it, any adult should be able call down any child under the age 18 for misbehaviour. But that Will Never Happen these Days!
                          I cut it twice, and it's still too short!
                          Scott

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                          • #14
                            I see the same deterioration occuring here. There are a lot of reasons for this I suppose, the main one IMO are the breeders who we would term "parents". The social security trap that rewards illegitimate breedlines is still providing more than adequate income to solos, many with partners who exist in the shadows.
                            "I have rights dontcha know. responsibilities? that is what the state owes me"
                            The dog eat dog mentality is a factor.There is so much more.
                            All I know is that my wife and I have brought our children up as best we can and despite our best efforts they have turned out OK. Some of it is to our credit; the rest lies in the decisions that our offspring have made as individual beings .

                            Ken
                            Ken.

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                            • #15
                              There is also the teaching practice of demanding kids be put on drugs rather than enforcing discipline.
                              __________________
                              Putting kids on the drugs is a way of dealling with the kid that has not been taught displine at home. The school is afraid to thouch the kid becuase of the parents and lawsuites. Parents are afraid to touch the kid becuase of the child severices.

                              This is interesting as my son teaches in a private school part time and is a corrections officer at the prision. What a combination! We were just talking about this this morning.

                              He has a stepson (7yrs old) that was having some problems in the public school. They had a meeting with the school counselor, the counselor suggested that maybe a visit to a Dr. and some drugs would help. The son moved the kid into the priviate school and now he has settled down and his grades have inproved. He just needed to be in a situation where they would not take any bull.


                              Now many of you that have children would get all upset if the school spanked your child? I don't mean beat him just a few swats with a belt.Think about it.

                              Personaly I think that the problem starts at home and at birth of the kid as they are learning form day one.
                              This has been my rant.
                              Don\'t ask me to do a dam thing, I\'m retired.
                              http://home.earthlink.net/~kcprecision/

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