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Coiling reel air hose spring question

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  • Coiling reel air hose spring question

    I have a reeling air hose that I want to get more turns for a longer hose. Can I get it to do this? How do I change the spring, do I remove some of the coil and rewind it or is this possible? I think it has to do with the number of turns because it bottoms out (would as tight as it can be) before I get the length I want. I'm not going to buy different one I want to try and make this one work.

    I look forward to any and all suggestions.

    TX
    Mr fixit for the family
    Chris

  • #2
    Well first off do you have enough room on the spool for the length of hose you want to use? I'm guessing you do.
    Assuming this reel uses the same type of spring that a lawn mower recoil starter uses and you can wind it enough to retract the additional length of hose you should be OK.
    The spring may not wind enough to retract any length longer than what it came with.
    Not really enough details on what length you have now and what length you want put on it. Gonna have to play around with it and see.

    You would have to remove the original hose and wind the spool enough to reel in the new hose, connect the hose and see if it takes it in. If not you'll have to remove the hose, give the spool a few more turns..... if the spring will take it and keep playing until you get it to retract with the new length of hose.
    I've done it before with drop light spools.

    JL..............
    Last edited by JoeLee; 02-28-2021, 11:45 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Joe's got a very good point. It sure ain't just the spring.

      I've got a 50ft reel up just over the exterior garage door that leads out to the car and truck parking for doing tires. And if I had many air tools also for doing light air tool work.

      They make these things pretty tight. If I carefully control the lay of the hose there would be room for perhaps another layer. I'm pretty sure I couldn't get a second layer So maybe another 15 to at most 20ft? But then there's times when it's reeling back in and it gets a few crisscrosses and it won't even hold the original 50 ft. I end up 8 to 10 feet short and I have to pull it back out and let it back with a little help. If you've had that happen with your reel in stock form at all then it'll only get 5x worse if you try to fit more hose. Even one more layer will compound the issue a lot more than by just the simple % share of added hose. So I tend to go along with Joe about the hose reel being at least as big an issue as the number of safe spring rotations.

      I've never looked at the spring in mine but assuming it's shaped like a typical flat band in a flat coil. If so there's a pretty well limited amount of turns from fully bound when expanded out and confined by the outer part of the drum. And then the same again when fully wound up and the flat band is tightly bound against the inner part of the drum. If you add more spring then there's actually less room for the part in the middle so less turns. But if you remove spring material other than by a small amount you stress the ends and it's more likely to snap off the ends in use.

      Chilliwack BC, Canada

      Comment


      • #4
        Both JoeLee and BCRider bring up some excellent points that should be carefully considered before venturing into this project.

        Below is some additional info you may find helpful.
        Many year ago I dealt with Newline Hose & Fittings for some custom hose reels and return springs and they were very accommodating in what they could supply given the application requirements and specifics they needed to fulfill what I needed. Not cheap but no complaints for the product they supplied.

        Newline Hose & Fittings

        I found a video also that describes repair of an air hose reel spring, it may offer some insight into what you may be dealing with, not knowing exactly what you have.
        The video is French but there is no narrative so the pictures will convey the message


        Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
        Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

        Location: British Columbia

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Guys,

          Away from the computer, sorry for the delayed response. The way you Guys have described it is correct. I have done as you said, removed the old hose and checked for capacity of the new hose and it will work. I'm using a smaller OD hose to get a bit more length and that is where the problem occurs. The reel will only wind up so many turns but it's not enough to reel all the new hose in. I have wound it until there is no more turns left, so this is the question, how do I get more turns (1-2) to take up the rest of the hose.
          Hopefully this gives enough to help answer the question.

          TX
          Mr fixit for the family
          Chris

          Comment


          • #6
            If you've wound the spool till you can't wind it anymore then the spring is tight. It's the end of the road.

            JL....

            Comment


            • #7
              Good answer!



              Originally posted by BCRider View Post
              Joe's got a very good point. It sure ain't just the spring.

              I've got a 50ft reel up just over the exterior garage door that leads out to the car and truck parking for doing tires. And if I had many air tools also for doing light air tool work.

              They make these things pretty tight. If I carefully control the lay of the hose there would be room for perhaps another layer. I'm pretty sure I couldn't get a second layer So maybe another 15 to at most 20ft? But then there's times when it's reeling back in and it gets a few crisscrosses and it won't even hold the original 50 ft. I end up 8 to 10 feet short and I have to pull it back out and let it back with a little help. If you've had that happen with your reel in stock form at all then it'll only get 5x worse if you try to fit more hose. Even one more layer will compound the issue a lot more than by just the simple % share of added hose. So I tend to go along with Joe about the hose reel being at least as big an issue as the number of safe spring rotations.

              I've never looked at the spring in mine but assuming it's shaped like a typical flat band in a flat coil. If so there's a pretty well limited amount of turns from fully bound when expanded out and confined by the outer part of the drum. And then the same again when fully wound up and the flat band is tightly bound against the inner part of the drum. If you add more spring then there's actually less room for the part in the middle so less turns. But if you remove spring material other than by a small amount you stress the ends and it's more likely to snap off the ends in use.
              Paul A.
              SE Texas

              And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
              You will find that it has discrete steps.

              Comment


              • #8
                This is like a window shade. You wind the shade completely around the spindle and install it. Then you pull the shade down and the spring winds up. If you can reach the fully retracted position of the shade, you are good. If not, then you need to rewind the shade all the way, remove it from the brackets, and unwind a few turns. Reinstall it and try again. You either reach a point where it works or the spring is just not large enough.

                So you do the same thing with your new hose. The spring is harder to change than the hose so you need a way to add or subtract turns of the hose without changing the spring. Even that may not be easy. However you must have some access to the interior in order to attach the inside end of the new hose.

                Pull out all of the old hose and lock the reel. Remove the old hose and install the new one. Then retract the new hose and see how far it goes. If it goes all the way in, you are good. If not, then try to wind the remaining amount of the new hose around the reel without changing the spring. Once you have done that try to pull all of it out. If you can, you are good. If not, then you probably can not use this longer hose with that reel.

                The only other thing would be to trying a new spring. The problem here is it needs to be shorter to allow more space for it to wind and unwind AND it needs to be longer to provide more turns in that process. I think that means that it would need to be thinner. So a new spring that is longer and thinner but just as strong as the original one.



                Originally posted by Mr Fixit View Post
                Hi Guys,

                Away from the computer, sorry for the delayed response. The way you Guys have described it is correct. I have done as you said, removed the old hose and checked for capacity of the new hose and it will work. I'm using a smaller OD hose to get a bit more length and that is where the problem occurs. The reel will only wind up so many turns but it's not enough to reel all the new hose in. I have wound it until there is no more turns left, so this is the question, how do I get more turns (1-2) to take up the rest of the hose.
                Hopefully this gives enough to help answer the question.

                TX
                Mr fixit for the family
                Chris
                Paul A.
                SE Texas

                And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                You will find that it has discrete steps.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The info about the new smaller OD hose helps a lot. And yes, that takes care of one of the big issues.

                  So now it's down to the spring.

                  If we look at the video up above (great find by the way!) you'll notice that the guy in there has to wind on quite a bit of static turns so the coil spring fits into the ring like cage that controls the expansion and final retraction position. If your reel uses something similar you might be able to make a new larger expansion band and get a couple of more turns. How much more will depend on if you're relying on the spring to lift up and park the hose, fitting and any air chuck overhead or horizontally. If you only need to retract horizontally then you can likely get more turns out of it.

                  At the other end where it's coiled tightly around the center you don't want to go tighter than snug. You'll feel things trying to tighten up and bind as you wind up the spring and just before that occurs that's your realistic and long life limit. Forcing it will simply encourage the spring ends to snap off or the center pin to shear off. And one more good reason not to push the fully wound tight limit too hard is the wear on the hose from the tension needed to extend the hose off the reel fully when you go to tighten the spring that far for this use.

                  In between will be the total amount of hose you can store and wind onto the reel without it binding and rubbing. It'll be much like Paul's window shade example.

                  If the hose does tend to bunch up with bad lays on the reel you can even remake the guide roller cage so it sits a little further from the reel.

                  Ya know... there is another option. Keep a 20 ft extension handy. If you're anything like me it's not THAT often that we need the extra 20 or so feet of length.


                  Chilliwack BC, Canada

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Great suggestions everyone. It sounds like I have what I have and that is it. I did get a few more feet on the hose reel with the smaller size, I was just trying to use the full length of premade hose without having to redo the hose, but it looks like that is the next thing to do, cut it to the max length with the real working as it was designed and put a new end on it and get back to work.

                    TX
                    Mr fixit for the family
                    Chris

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mr Fixit View Post
                      Great suggestions everyone. It sounds like I have what I have and that is it. I did get a few more feet on the hose reel with the smaller size, I was just trying to use the full length of premade hose without having to redo the hose, but it looks like that is the next thing to do, cut it to the max length with the real working as it was designed and put a new end on it and get back to work.

                      TX
                      Mr fixit for the family
                      Chris
                      Probably the best thing to do but you gave it a good shot. You would have to over wind the spool by a few undetermined turns in order for the spring to have enough strength left to fully retract the hose, especially if your pulling the hose from the floor to the ceiling.That's added weight right there.
                      I don't even know where you would buy flat coil spring stock the thickness and width you would need, but I'm sure someone makes it.

                      I ran into a similar situation with an Electrolux vacuum cleaner. The cord had a broken wire about 6' from the plug. I bought a new OEM cord for it to make sure it was the same OD and would fit on the spool. The new cord was about 5' longer than the original. The extra length did fit on the spool, but it was close and if it were to cross during re-wind it would be over the top edge of the spool and bind up. I figured the extra length would be a plus. After replacing it I found that it wouldn't retract the entire length of cord and it kind of ran out of steam about 4' from full retraction. Couldn't over wind the spring to compensate either. When I did attempt to do that I found that I couldn't pull the entire length of cord out as the spring would tighten up on the unwind as well as the wind. It was enclosed in metal disc like housing. So I was screwed either way. They had it figured out to the exact length of cord.
                      So had to repeat all the R&R steps to shorten the cord up to original length.

                      JL..............

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The link I left previously leads to hose reel rewind springs, they have a number of rewind springs in stock and they used to at least, make custom length springs to order, but like I mentioned, not cheap.

                        If it were me I'd find an easier battle to address. Smaller diameter hose is one solution. However like a small gauge extension cord, you won't get much work out of it.
                        Like BCRider mentioned, keep a 20ft. length of hose handy if and when you do need that last little bit
                        Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                        Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                        Location: British Columbia

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If the hose is much thinner you could put some space at the center of the drum to increase the initial radius. This way you get more hose per turn and could wind all the new hose with the same turns as the old one.
                          Helder Ferreira
                          Setubal, Portugal

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Noitoen View Post
                            If the hose is much thinner you could put some space at the center of the drum to increase the initial radius. This way you get more hose per turn and could wind all the new hose with the same turns as the old one.
                            I don't quite understand what your saying here.

                            Increasing the internal radius would reduce the amount of hose that the reel could take in.

                            JL............

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
                              I don't quite understand what your saying here.

                              Increasing the internal radius would reduce the amount of hose that the reel could take in.

                              JL............
                              That's technically true. But if the retracting spring only turns a fixed number of times and cannot be adjusted then increasing the diameter of the reel's inner diameter will maximize the length of hose per turn. And provided, of course, spacing the hose out doesn't cause any cross over bunching to foul the hose guide.
                              Chilliwack BC, Canada

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