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  • #16
    In the UK, air weapons are limited to 6 ftlbs muzzle energy for pistols and 12 ftlbs for rifles. Silencers are ok. If you want more power, you will have to hold a firearms certificate for rifles only. If you shoot somebody with any air weapon, the offence is treated as firearm related.

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    • #17
      Just after the start of the new year, I was waiting on some stuff from China that was delayed past the original estimate delivery date. According to one of the firearms forums I visit, the ATF was scanning packages in incoming warehouses looking for these things and then letting them through after recording the delivery info. Another conspiracy theory? Who knows. I just know I’m not on that list.

      A few years back I sold a 10x24 lathe to a guy and helped him install it in a conex behind his house. As soon as I arrived there I asked if he had an FFL and he pointed it out framed on the wall. Now feeling more comfortable about things, we further discussed why he bought the lathe and it was to build these things. End of story there too. I avoid these things like the plague.

      The air gun things really don’t work either. My 1300 fps Gamo sets every dog barking for two blocks. Worse yet if I ask it to diesel. It’s the sonic boom after all and that’s only after it’s left the barrel.
      Illigitimi non Carborundum 😎
      9X49 Birmingham Mill, Reid Model 2C Grinder, 13x40 ENCO GH Lathe, 6X18 Craftsman lathe, Sherline CNC mill, Eastwood TIG200 AC/DC and lots of stuff from 30+ years in the trade and 15.5 in refinery unit operations. Now retired. El Paso, TX

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Tim The Grim View Post

        The air gun things really don’t work either. My 1300 fps Gamo sets every dog barking for two blocks. Worse yet if I ask it to diesel. It’s the sonic boom after all and that’s only after it’s left the barrel.
        Tim wow --- we need to talk, your getting that out of an air rifle? incredible ,,,,, I used to have a couple old Sheridans - a blue and a silver streak and they were ahead of their time - for the time,,, I remember getting a "hotter round" after 8 pumps immediately after I lubed it, it was using the oil as fuel complete with smoke coming out of the barrel and everything (just like the real guys lol)

        I also remember upping the ante on the blue streaks compression ratio, and the oil igniting just while pumping ---- talk about kickback - would almost break your arm ...

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Tim The Grim View Post
          Just after the start of the new year, I was waiting on some stuff from China that was delayed past the original estimate delivery date. According to one of the firearms forums I visit, the ATF was scanning packages in incoming warehouses looking for these things and then letting them through after recording the delivery info. Another conspiracy theory? Who knows. I just know I’m not on that list.

          A few years back I sold a 10x24 lathe to a guy and helped him install it in a conex behind his house. As soon as I arrived there I asked if he had an FFL and he pointed it out framed on the wall. Now feeling more comfortable about things, we further discussed why he bought the lathe and it was to build these things. End of story there too. I avoid these things like the plague.

          The air gun things really don’t work either. My 1300 fps Gamo sets every dog barking for two blocks. Worse yet if I ask it to diesel. It’s the sonic boom after all and that’s only after it’s left the barrel.
          I just read a write up about the Gamo Magnum --- something like 1650 fps in .177 cal mode. that's flat out amazing for an air rifle but i always hated the spring piston rifles for accuracy --- damn my sheridans were accurate - I mean pick off a fly from 10 yards away accurate.

          also seen another vid claiming air rifles can be modified to be two or three times faster than any other powder rifle,,, with of course adding specific gasses...

          I have always wondered why a little diesel injector that spritzes just before the main compression hits the pellet has never taken off --- I bet one ounce of diesel would last a thousand shots or something crazy like that...

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          • #20
            Originally posted by sarge41 View Post
            If the ATF is so strict about silencers, what about air rifles that come with a "noise suppression" attachment that looks looks a silencer.
            -As Willy notes, an airgun is not considered a firearm. However, the ATF considers the silencer itself to be effectively a firearm. Or at least, an object to be regulated like a firearm.

            Note that any air rifle available with a "moderator" has it built in. It's permanently attached. (At least in the US.) Sawing it off is considered intent to construct an illegal suppressor, and is prosecutable.

            And personally, I really wish they'd relax the rules a bit- and officially. As some of you may know I'm into the sport of paintball, and early on, we used to be able to make and even buy "silencers" made out of ABS pipe sections, and slip-fitted to our paintball guns.

            Paintball guns are just a variant of airgun, and so doing so should be legal, right? Nope. The ATF basically considered that anything you can mount to a firearm barrel, even if you have to hand hold it there, and it quiets the shot- of even a .22- so much as one decibel, even for just one shot, it's a "suppressor" and therefore regulated.

            And yes, I can hear you thinking- what about pillows and the like? People have gotten back letters from the ATF concerning things like- and I'm not kidding- pipe insulation and pool noodles. Keep 'em away from your guns, and you're fine. Slip a section over the barrel of your 10-22, and you just made a suppressor. Do not collect $200, head straight to jail.

            The ATF even raided a couple of manufacturers- most famously (at least in our circles) a company called BOA, or Barrels of America. They made a nickel-plated brass barrel- for a paintball gun, mind- called the Concealor, that came with an ABS sleeve that went over the porting on the end. They were raided, served with papers, and shut down by the ATF. Their stock confiscated, and in the end, as I recall, it cost them over $100K. I think they might have been cleared, even, but they still had to pay the costs, and it put them completely out of business.

            Now, that said, today, players will occasionally make a similar unit, out of the same ABS pipe sections, or even 3D print one- as long as they're not being too blatant about it, or trying to sell them, the ATF really doesn't care. It's not worth trying to prosecute some 18-year-old paintballer. But in my opinion, it's still playing with fire- it's still illegal, and of some officious prick spots it in your gearbag and decides to make the proverbial Federal Case out of it, you're in for a world of hurt.

            Not sure what the particulars are in the US concerning high powered air powered arms is. There are some very powerful air powered arms nowadays.
            Doc should know.
            -There are no specific regulations on air rifle power in the United States. You can buy an air rifle that will fire a .38 caliber jacketed slug- the same one used to load a .38 or .357 handgun round- at speeds in excess of 1500FPS. Or about the same as that .357 itself. That's enough power to take down an elk- and people have done it.

            Doc.
            Last edited by Doc Nickel; 03-14-2021, 06:23 AM.
            Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

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            • #21
              It's filters out the sound that the bullet's fuel makes when you fire it, so it can be considered a fuel filter
              Helder Ferreira
              Setubal, Portugal

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              • #22
                Riddle me this:

                In Europe, where most countries have extremely restrictive gun laws, silencers are generally unrestricted and, from what I understand, are considered to be polite and are even required for some types of shooting.

                In the US, with our much more permissive firearm regulations, silencers are considered “evil” and are heavily regulated. And taxed.

                Evil, or not? And if not, could it just be an excuse for our government to control and tax?

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                • #23
                  Yes, and we still call our country a democracy.
                  “I know lots of people who are educated far beyond their intelligence”

                  Lewis Grizzard

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                  • #24
                    For a powerful air weapon, the ideal velocity would be just subsonic, no supersonic crack, and for higher power, increase the projectile weight. Larger calibers make the weight factor easy.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by JohnMartin View Post
                      Riddle me this:

                      In Europe, where most countries have extremely restrictive gun laws, silencers are generally unrestricted and, from what I understand, are considered to be polite and are even required for some types of shooting.

                      In the US, with our much more permissive firearm regulations, silencers are considered “evil” and are heavily regulated. And taxed.

                      Evil, or not? And if not, could it just be an excuse for our government to control and tax?
                      Even though I'm licensed to carry a concealed firearm, if I'm caught carrying an automatic knife (switchblade) I'm arrested.
                      What possible sense does that, or even the original federal ban on switchblades, make?
                      How does the mechanism for opening a folding knife make it more lethal, especially when spring assist knives are OK?
                      Selling silencers as fuel filters is not only transparent but ridiculous however, the fear that suppressors will lead to neighborhood "007's" must be caused by brain eating amoeba.
                      Len

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                      • #26
                        It's my belief that Silencers are considered evil because most people have never seen one except in a movie / TV. They think a 4 inch tube makes an undetectable sniper rifle that can accurately kill a dozen people from the top of a building a mile away.

                        If suppressors were more widely available people would understand their value and capabilities. It would be easier to campaign for changing that particular law.

                        Dan
                        At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

                        Location: SF East Bay.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by danlb View Post
                          It's my belief that Silencers are considered evil because most people have never seen one except in a movie / TV. They think a 4 inch tube makes an undetectable sniper rifle that can accurately kill a dozen people from the top of a building a mile away.

                          If suppressors were more widely available people would understand their value and capabilities. It would be easier to campaign for changing that particular law.

                          Dan
                          This pretty well nails it.
                          Folks in authoritarian positions that have absolutely no knowledge of the subject making draconian laws based on misinformation. They then get votes from an uneducated public that feels they are being protected from silent assassins.


                          Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                          Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                          Location: British Columbia

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by JohnMartin View Post
                            Evil, or not? And if not, could it just be an excuse for our government to control and tax?
                            -Bingo.

                            The silencer thing came from the same prohibitions against machine guns and "sawed off" shotguns, enacted in '34 in response to all the Prohibition violence.

                            The "sawed off" thing is another one. The original idea was that made the shotgun or rifle "more concealable". Okay, even if you buy that, then why does the same rule apply to adding a shoulder stock to a handgun? That makes the handgun less concealable.

                            It's my belief that Silencers are considered evil because most people have never seen one except in a movie / TV.
                            -This is, in my opinion, exactly the case. Over the last fifty-plus years, no one (in an average, man-on-the-street sense) ever sees a 'silencer' except attached to an assassin's weapon. If you see a silenced weapon in a movie or TV show, it's being used to murder somebody- that's the whole point of having one, so you can slip in, kill the guy and slip back out without attracting attention.

                            It's like the majority of today's opinion of nuclear power is formed by people whose only contact with it is The Simpsons. (Which, by the way, is deliberate- Matt Goening is rabidly anti-nuclear.)

                            The Europeans have the right idea- having a silencer so you can both protect your own hearing and not annoy the neighbors is the whole reason Maxim invented the thing in the first place. Toward the bginning of the last administration, a law was proposed to ease the purchase of suppressors- basically to make them as easy to buy as a firearm. Still papered and whatnot, but doing away with the tax stamp and $200 fee. Specifically as hearing protection- which is as it should be- we don't allow unmuffled cars and trucks, why require unmuffled firearms?

                            But as above, the general sentiment is that no one but an assassin or murderer needs a silencer, and so that legislation was doomed before it was even written.

                            Doc.
                            Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

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                            • #29
                              All weapons should be legal, this ensures that everyone is equal.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Doc Nickel View Post

                                -Bingo.

                                The silencer thing came from the same prohibitions against machine guns and "sawed off" shotguns, enacted in '34 in response to all the Prohibition violence.

                                The "sawed off" thing is another one. The original idea was that made the shotgun or rifle "more concealable". Okay, even if you buy that, then why does the same rule apply to adding a shoulder stock to a handgun? That makes the handgun less concealable.

                                ....................

                                But as above, the general sentiment is that no one but an assassin or murderer needs a silencer, and so that legislation was doomed before it was even written.
                                Plus we can't leave out the rabidly anti-gun news media who makes sure the public is misinformed. I remember a while back after that "Hearing Protection Act" bill had been entered and someone went into an airport and shot a person or two. The news media MADE SURE everyone knew that if the HPA was passed why that guy could have walked all through the airport silently shooting people before anyone knew he was doing it. I went to a 3-gun match in 2019 and heard an AR-15 that "didn't sound right". Went over and saw the rifle had a nice suppressor on it. Wasn't even REMOTELY close to being "quiet", just a bit quieter and a decidedly different sound to it.

                                As far as the Short Barreled Rifle part of the 1934 NFA, It's simply a matter of the definition of an SBR. If it has an overall length more than 26" and a barrel more than 16", it's a rifle. If the length is under 26" and the barrel is under 16", it's a pistol. If the length is over 26" and the barrel less than 16" it's an evil SBR and needs a special federal license. Which gives us the stupidity where Auto-Ordnance sells a semi-auto version of the Thompson Submachine gun in a choice of barrel length and stock or no stock, that is either a rifle, or a pistol, or an SBR depending upon which laws you want to deal with.

                                BTW - Tim, don't believe everything you read on a firearms forum. The DEA can't keep out vast quantities of illegal drugs, I can promise the ATF isn't searching for pieces of metal of a certain size. Especially since the largest piece is available at any NAPA store.

                                Steve
                                Last edited by SteveF; 03-14-2021, 06:52 PM.

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