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  • Toledo Punch Press ?

    Anyone know about the OLD Toledo Punch Presses? I'm going to pickup a No. 4 Saturday and need to know about what it weighs. Also capacity and any other info you have. It looks like it was flat-belt driven but I'm not sure. It's just another piece of history I plan to restore and put back to work.

    Thanks, Ken

    Last edited by CCWKen; 04-13-2006, 06:23 PM.

  • #2
    I found a cross reference to Bliss presses, in one of my old books, which says a no. 4 toledo is equivalent to a no. 20B Bliss, which is a 30 ton press, which was originally fitted with a 3hp motor. Cant find the overall weight. But my guess is that is it easily weighs 2000 to 3500lbs. Some of the OBI presses in this tonnage weigh as much as 6000lbs. There is a lot of cast iron there.
    This is an OBI press,- Open Bed Inclinable- which means it can lean back if you want it to- of which there are hundreds of thousands out there- or were, at one time.

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    • #3
      Thanks Ries. By the scale of the trailer tire, it looks to be about 6-7 feet tall.

      I hope I get my money's worth.

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      • #4
        A friend has a bliss that looks like that. It has double v belts to the motor . Seems to work fine. It is hard to kill one of these old machines. You can get parts for it.
        re
        Herm Williams

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        • #5
          Got any extra fingers you don't need? If you can gather together enough carelessness, that thing will help you get rid of them.

          Where I work we use stampings, bought from suppliers. Without fail, the reps they send to talk to us about applications share one thing in common: the absence of digits in varying degrees.

          Whatcha gonna stamp out in large quantities on it?

          Wes
          Weston Bye - Author, The Mechatronist column, Digital Machinist magazine
          ~Practitioner of the Electromechanical Arts~

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Wes1
            Whatcha gonna stamp out in large quantities on it?

            Wes
            Obviously he's considering cornering the market on 1/4" flat washers


            Out in the weeds somewhere I have the next step down,20 ton I think.

            Ries has it right on the wieght,no more than 3500#s,cept OBI means Open Back Inclinable as I remember it.

            Missing fingers you bet,oil on them clicker dogs,not grease.An air cylinder/solenoid and a couple palm buttons helps prevent coming up short.

            Just out of curiosity,how much did you have to give?
            I just need one more tool,just one!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Wes1
              Whatcha gonna stamp out in large quantities on it?
              Probably not much in quantity. I'm tired of drilling holes and milling slots for bumper brackets. I'm hoping this will punch a slot in 3/8". I do quite a few one-off brackets in everything from 10ga. to 1/4" too.

              Besides, I didn't have the heart to see this ole machine go to salvage.

              As far as dangers, there's plenty of other power hammers and shears around here to keep me scared enough to watch my fingers.

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              • #8
                1/4" flat washers? Naw, I make those on my little Whitney-Jensen.

                Price?.... About a $0.01/lb.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by CCWKen
                  1/4" flat washers? Naw, I make those on my little Whitney-Jensen.

                  Price?.... About a $0.01/lb.
                  I'll take 500 lbs of those 1/4" flat washers. I've searched high and low and nobody can beat your price. Do you think you can get them to me by Monday?

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                  • #10
                    Toledo Punch Press ?

                    Quote:

                    Got any extra fingers you don't need? If you can gather together enough carelessness, that thing will help you get rid of them.


                    You sure got that right, Wes1. When I worked in tool and die, 30 years ago, the plant I worked in had 6 of them. Their "gravy job" was making aluminum gaskets for Monsanto Company's nylon extrusion molds. It was a simple 3 operation job and they produced the things by the thousands a month. All new hires got to run them for a couple of weeks. It kind of weeds out the dufuses real quick. They used tongs to load the parts and had cages around the dies for safety. They broke many a die by stamping a set of tongs in the form die. Never did like working around presses. I was in constant terror for the six months I spent spotting in dies. Too easy to get squashed. We had an old worn out Toledo 150 ton that we called "double hit" because every once in a while it would go through the cycle twice. It got lots of fingers and even a couple hands...ouch!

                    Jim (KB4IVH)
                    Jim (KB4IVH)

                    Only fools abuse their tools.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Schutzhund
                      I'll take 500 lbs of those 1/4" flat washers. I've searched high and low and nobody can beat your price. Do you think you can get them to me by Monday?
                      :lol: I'd like to have those washers too! The "price" I was referring to was the cost of the punch. I bet it comes out to less than a penny a pound.

                      You guys are scaring me now. I've never been closer to one of these punch presses than a picture. I thought I could figure out how it works but it sounds like the motor runs all the time and you use a clutch to fire the punch. Is this right? How would it close without the motor running? Is the clutch that flaky?

                      I guess I'll figure it out when it gets here.

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                      • #12
                        Yes, there is a clutch of sorts that actuates when you trip a lever (or foot pedal). The "clutch" is usually a small dog that slides into a slot in the flywheel causing the crank mechanism to turn in conjunction with the flywheel. The rotation of the crank in turn causes the ram to descend to punch or do whatever operation the machine is set up to do.

                        Newer presses have a mechanism so the machine only strokes once per push of the trip lever, even if you purposely hold the trip lever down. This is a safety feature. Your press looks old enough it may not have this feature, so if you accidently hold the trip lever down a moment too long the press may cycle more than once. The unexpected second stroke of the ram is why lots of old time press operators are called "Lefty".

                        Your press is back geared so the ram stroke is not tremendously fast, still that unexpected second stroke may come fast enough to be very dangerous. Make sure the working area of the press is guarded so there's no chance of getting a hand in there.

                        To lower the ram without the motor running is easy. Turn the flywheel by hand while holding the trip lever down.


                        Punch presses are cool machines. I have several $25 auction specials. They're used for shearing, punching, bending, etc.


                        One reason punch presses sometimes go for scrap price or less is the lack of OSHA approved controls, things like dual hand buttons so it can't be actuated unless both hands are out of the working area.
                        Last edited by DR; 04-14-2006, 07:55 PM.

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                        • #13
                          You can put it back in service if you use common sence.

                          If you saw the machine tools show on the history channel it show the user using tongs to place and withdraw the workpeice, that way the worst that could happen is the tongs get munched and posible damage to the die.

                          do like the old boys did to run them

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                          • #14
                            That clutch is similar to a 'T' model, in or out. as above use a guard and two push buttons set up so they both have to be pushed at the same time not one taped down on blocked. foot pedal is very dangerous.
                            re
                            Herm Williams

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                            • #15
                              I have seen one with Uni punches in it,it works out well . IIRC, 1/2"inch holes in 3/8" steel X 4 on his unit.

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