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Container Ship Stuck In The Suez Canal OT

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  • #91
    Originally posted by elf View Post
    None of the other ships in the convoy were affected by the dust storm enough to run aground. It would seem this is a human caused problem either intentional or not.
    None of the others are this big. They are not steering by "visual"; pretty much autopilot. Once the wind pushes you beyond a small but critical angle it's all over. "Rudder" alone is worthless unless you are planning miles ahead. I'm surprised it hasn't happened more often.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by lakeside53 View Post

      "Rudder" alone is worthless unless you are planning miles ahead. I'm surprised it hasn't happened more often.
      We'll see what Elf says as he's "been there done that"

      but I would not think rudder is worthless and in fact it's one of two ways to steer the ship,,, keep in mind Elf stated roughly 12 knots of speed before the crash, rudders take a little speed to work and that might be enough - also factor in that you stated it takes "miles ahead"
      well it takes miles to get off course too,,, like I stated earlier - this was not a "gust" of wind...

      so with steady high speed cross winds, and rudder for stern control and thrusters for front you might think more of an airplane scenario of "crabbing" coming onto the strip... - in fact pretty good comparison with the way a prop pulls the "bow" of the plane towards the wind whilst the "stern" and rudder keeps check on things not getting to out of control...

      If things got so crazy that the thrusters were going full bore you can bet they were also having to rely heavy on the rudder... although one needs ship speed (the latter) to be more effective --- interested in hearing from Elf just how much the rudder would be able to counter the thrusters... think about the "over steer" in the pig if all you were relying on was the thrusters in a cross wind,,, all those boxes stack half aft/ship tossing the ass end trying to swap ends... just sayin

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      • #93
        After mentioning the above --- an airplane uses it's fuselage in cross winds --- uses it as a "tool" to get diagonal and "pry" off of the oncoming wind and take advantage of that vector to counteract the crosswind, that's even with no "bow thrusters" at all, just rudder control and a slight power increase to compensate for all the drag...

        I heard a few guys talking earlier as if ALL the side loading from the wind on the boxes was ALL left up to the thrusters,,, I would not think nowhere near that --- just come up with enough to change the nose, that's it,,, if you have the control to do that then it's up to how much speed you have for rudder effect --- if you have enough for that then the ship should look like a slight diagonal going straight through the channel --- imagine the counteracting surface area of that entire side of the ship IN water counteracting the air...

        Now I am wondering which direction the wind was blowing on the ship --- You see, the captain might have been doing the above mentioned and maybe for so long he got complacent --- kept it going even after the wind settled? would take just about as long as not reacting to the wind in the first place so who know's --- but if it's not on the side we think he should have got pushed into then it might be a case of classic "oversteer"

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        • #94
          Originally posted by lakeside53 View Post

          None of the others are this big. They are not steering by "visual"; pretty much autopilot. Once the wind pushes you beyond a small but critical angle it's all over. "Rudder" alone is worthless unless you are planning miles ahead. I'm surprised it hasn't happened more often.
          In aviation it's referred to as the "maximum crosswind component." All aircraft, regardless of size, have a maximum crosswind they can handle and still stay straight on the runway when in that slow flight stage of taking off and landing. Doesn't matter if the pilot is at the controls, or the autopilot is driving. Exceed that component value and you're gonna get blown into the woods. Most larger airports have more than one runway to allow for this reason.

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          • #95
            I would expect most container ships to be very similar in the ratio of horsepower, rudder, thrusters, etc to size and windage regardless of size. In the last year, there were more than 18,000 transits of the canal with zero accidents. This storm also did not have the strongest winds.

            I don't think thrusters work very well at speeds above a couple of knots. They certainly didn't on the size ships I ran.

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            • #96
              Here’s a great explanation of what happened and what is happening with trying to unstick it.
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iyn2q6s1Sk
              Sole proprietor of Acme Buggy Whips Ltd.
              Specialty products for beating dead horses.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Beazld View Post
                Here’s a great explanation of what happened and what is happening with trying to unstick it.
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iyn2q6s1Sk
                Dupe ! Post #89

                JL.............

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                • #98
                  Seems the hopes of today's highest tide didn't pan out. Dang.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by lakeside53 View Post

                    None of the others are this big. They are not steering by "visual"; pretty much autopilot. Once the wind pushes you beyond a small but critical angle it's all over. "Rudder" alone is worthless unless you are planning miles ahead. I'm surprised it hasn't happened more often.
                    As you say, rudder alone at slow speeds is worthless. So again, I question why there weren't tugs with it the whole way through, like the Kill Van Kull waterway in NY harbor I mentioned above or the Panama Canal. And if there were, why didn't they do their jobs?
                    Location: Jersey City NJ USA

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                    • Seems like the take on Pilots and self-power through. Not sure if the use steering tugs for corrections.

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                      • Giant Vessel Is Now Afloat, Inchcape Says: Suez Update (msn.com)

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                          • I wonder how effective it would be to mount one or more jet engines to the deck of the ship to act as bow (or stern) thrusters? Probably not needed now, but might be an option for future use. And maybe they could be used as primary propulsion units to get higher speed in open water.
                            http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png
                            Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
                            USA Maryland 21030

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                            • Not a remarkably good idea!
                              http://www.helensburgh-heritage.co.u...69-lucy-ashton

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                              • Originally posted by PStechPaul View Post
                                I wonder how effective it would be to mount one or more jet engines to the deck of the ship to act as bow (or stern) thrusters?
                                -A fully-loaded Airbus 380 weighs 400 tons. The EverStuck weighs a quarter of a billion tons. I'm not sure you could put enough jets on it to do any good.

                                Doc.
                                Doc's Machine. (Probably not what you expect.)

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