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Container Ship Stuck In The Suez Canal OT

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  • I make chips
    replied
    Truth comes out and why the Everstuck got where it was.

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  • JoeLee
    replied
    Originally posted by old mart View Post
    The Evergiven is still moored in the north east side of the Great Bitter Lake. I wonder if there is more damage than originally thought? Or is it being held there while other ships get a chance to make the passage?
    They are probably doing all kinds of structural inspections. The did mention that the hull was sagging when it was stuck.

    JL.................

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  • old mart
    replied
    The Evergiven is still moored in the north east side of the Great Bitter Lake. I wonder if there is more damage than originally thought? Or is it being held there while other ships get a chance to make the passage?

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  • 754
    replied
    I think the second end of ship plowing in was a bit like a meteor crater.. a lot of material displaced rapidly. So as it plowed thru , it passed under and was jammed with mud on both sides... all rather quickly.... In amounts that mere excavators and dredges will take Days to remove....that is my take on it..

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  • gellfex
    replied
    Great video Mike, it also shows why the stern hit the west bank, it was the wind from the south! In all the reports of wind I assumed they were from the W, explaining why it hit the east bank. But once it hit the E bank and stopped, the S wind would push the stern to the W bank, rather than the ship's momentum.

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  • A.K. Boomer
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

    The video gives that also.... (A very good and entirely sensible explanation, by the way)... once the vessel is across to any degree, between the bank suction and the wind, it would get crosswise with almost no way to escape.



    Yeah but watching the vid it seems like it was settled out in the middle of the canal -- then all the sudden went full bore into the bank... it's just kinda strange looking like orders were given to the stern man but he was standing backwards at the time and got them mixed up lol

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  • J Tiers
    replied
    Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
    AWESOME Mike, very good breakdown by an expert,

    thing is - is that it looked like it was actually back under control - was in the middle and then a "insta twich" almost as if someone steered it directly in the wrong direction...

    that last twitch does not make much sense as it looked "stable" but then again the previous wind graph does bring up the epic gust at last moments so maybe that's it --- ?
    The video gives that also.... (A very good and entirely sensible explanation, by the way)... once the vessel is across to any degree, between the bank suction and the wind, it would get crosswise with almost no way to escape.

    It's interesting, very much the same thing you would expect with a current through the canal, only there isn't one, apparently. And as soon as you get the bow stuck into the bank, the current (in this case the wind) brings the stern around, helped by the sideways crabbing due to the bank effect mentioned in the video.

    Quite sensible and as far as I can see, technically correct, stated by someone who clearly understands the subject. Thanks for posting it!


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  • Michael Edwards
    replied
    After watching the video it looks to me like a hysteresis loop caused by wind and bank effect/squat.

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  • A.K. Boomer
    replied
    AWESOME Mike, very good breakdown by an expert,

    thing is - is that it looked like it was actually back under control - was in the middle and then a "insta twich" almost as if someone steered it directly in the wrong direction...

    that last twitch does not make much sense as it looked "stable" but then again the previous wind graph does bring up the epic gust at last moments so maybe that's it --- ?

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  • Michael Edwards
    replied
    Time to end the speculation.... start at 7:00


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  • A.K. Boomer
    replied
    There's so many factors to consider - that canal probably flows like a river inward from both ends at high tide and meets in the middle, if the flow rate was large enough and going with the ship the rudder would not work well and also the ship could stick it's nose at an angle and then the tail could be pushed into the other side by the flow rate along with other forces,,, ships are just as prone to "water speed" as aircraft are to airspeed or they "flounder" only difference is they don't fall out of the sky because of it...

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  • J Tiers
    replied
    I saw a video that showed the path of the ship according to the gps readout. It showed the ship veering to the right, after a drift to the left. Easily could be over correcting for movement due to wind.

    Neither of us KNOWS what happened, my point is that there is a perfectly good scenario for the ship being steered in such a way that it was "crabbing". Whether that was due to wind, over-correction on account of wind, or what, we none of us know.

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  • A.K. Boomer
    replied
    Im more on the lines of what JT stated --- due to the wind the boat was in a crab of sorts,,, all it would take is just a small angle and then that would get compounded with all the weight in the back of the vessel... Im sure they will have some kinda graph we can all view pretty soon like the One Mike E. posted --- maybe it will shed some light on all the speculation...

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  • gellfex
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

    That is probably not the situation in the canal. You are describing what happens when the vessel is on a stable path.

    Here, we had a very large and heavy vessel that was proceeding at 12 to 15 knots along a fairly narrow canal. The wind definitely hit it, there is the graph of wind speed at the time of the accident to prove it.

    There was simply no space for the vessel to come to stability on a path into the bank, and even a moderately alert master would notice the new course in the time needed to come to stability on a new path. I would imagine it takes several minutes for that size of vessel to come around significantly, let alone stop slewing and come to a new stable path. (And several more to undo what was done).

    The likely precipitating issue was wind, likely combined with human factors. The wind would get the vessel at an angle, but it would be still slewing, not on a course in-line with the keel. The center of mass would be to port of the location of the bow, relative to the course at the instant of grounding (I believe it grounded the bow on the east bank of the canal). That is sufficient to swing the stern around, as apparently did in fact happen. The action is to grind the bow further into the bank, in fact.

    You can look at aerial pics of large vessels turning. They do not go around on rails, there is, as you know, a disturbed water area toward the inside of the turn, due to the hull actually sliding sideways, prior to coming to stability on the new course. Probably less so on many sailboats, due to the keel, but that ship looks more like a large canoe as to the hull form below waterline.
    After all my years of boating my gut says no. Leeway, the effect of the wind on a hull, is a function of both your underwater and above water profile areas. A rowboat with no appreciable hull depth skitters across the water in a wind. But a deep hulled ship does not, even if it is twice as tall as it is deep, since water is so very much denser than air and resists the force. It takes way, way more force to push a deep ship sideways than it does to push it forward in the way it was designed.

    Even if there was a gust that hit the bow and not the stern, since hitting both would cause it to slide parallel to the bank not into it, given the speed they were going at best it would alter the course, not slew the ship the way a rudder can. A rudder changes the hydrodynamics of the hull and pushes the stern in the direction opposite the turn, that's the slewing you see in a rudder turn. Its the difference between turning a car and drifting one. This would be more like giving a moving car's nose a steady nudge on a gravel track. The momentum of the car would deviate, not stay in the same direction, the car wouldn't just slide sideways the way it would on ice.

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  • J Tiers
    replied
    Originally posted by gellfex View Post
    IMO the notion some of you have that the stern would swing when the bow dug in is wrong. Have any of you actually hit something dead on in a boat? I have, lots of times! In everything from kayaks to a 30' sloop. If the bow hit, the momentum of the boat was in line with the keel, there would be no swinging action. In fact, if it's at an angle, what usually happens is the bow slides to teh side, and the stern comes in to that same shore brought by the momentum that was heading that way.
    That is probably not the situation in the canal. You are describing what happens when the vessel is on a stable path.

    Here, we had a very large and heavy vessel that was proceeding at 12 to 15 knots along a fairly narrow canal. The wind definitely hit it, there is the graph of wind speed at the time of the accident to prove it.

    There was simply no space for the vessel to come to stability on a path into the bank, and even a moderately alert master would notice the new course in the time needed to come to stability on a new path. I would imagine it takes several minutes for that size of vessel to come around significantly, let alone stop slewing and come to a new stable path. (And several more to undo what was done).

    The likely precipitating issue was wind, likely combined with human factors. The wind would get the vessel at an angle, but it would be still slewing, not on a course in-line with the keel. The center of mass would be to port of the location of the bow, relative to the course at the instant of grounding (I believe it grounded the bow on the east bank of the canal). That is sufficient to swing the stern around, as apparently did in fact happen. The action is to grind the bow further into the bank, in fact.

    You can look at aerial pics of large vessels turning. They do not go around on rails, there is, as you know, a disturbed water area toward the inside of the turn, due to the hull actually sliding sideways, prior to coming to stability on the new course. Probably less so on many sailboats, due to the keel, but that ship looks more like a large canoe as to the hull form below waterline.
    Last edited by J Tiers; 03-30-2021, 08:02 PM.

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