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  • OT Need crimping lesson

    Ok, Have been crimping for long time but have never been totally happy with the results. I mean they hold and everything but
    they always feel a little flattened more than wrapped around looking tightly hugged.

    But I ordered some new connectors and they look like they should be easy to crimp, but I can not come close
    to getting a good crimp.

    The first tool is my normal crimper tool and it sort of crimps it, but it's ... again .. just squished down with no wrap around.

    The others don't even come close.

    So what tool do I need or maybe use a tool shown. I hope you can zoom in on the connectors.

    Click image for larger version

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    John Titor, when are you.

  • #2
    It's a little hard to see, but it looks like you need an "F" type crimper. The crimper at far right appears to be the "F" type, and would be the best bet, assuming the connectors will fit in the openings OK.

    It looks like you have "wire joiners", which would require two crimps per joiner.

    The portion of the crimp jaws which we see is the part for the actual crimp onto the wire, the hidden side will produce the crimp that holds the insulation.
    CNC machines only go through the motions

    Comment


    • #3
      yep, it's about "right tool" for the terminal. The left one you show is just for typical insulated terminal. The third from the left is... toss it. The far right - maybe, but you have to have the exact jaws for the perfect crimp. I have about 20 crimpers, and still rarely have the right one if I step outside my AMP or Molex terminals.

      Comment


      • #4
        You ordered some new connectors. OK,

        Brand name?

        Part number?

        I bet you will not be able to answer those two questions.

        Reputable manufacturers of crimp terminals and connector inserts will also specify the exact tool that should be used to crimp them.

        A crimped electrical connection is a precisely engineered thing. The wire inside the sleeve is deformed just enough to create microscopic spot welds between it and the sleeve. Metal flows in a precise manner. Too little and oxygen can get between them and cause corrosion and failure. Too much and the wire can break off or melt when current is high.

        If you are just grabbing a tool that looks right, you may as well put a Ford piston in a GM engine. But perhaps you do that too.

        I would suggest, as a quick fix, that you may want to CAREFULLY solder the crimps after crimping them loosely. But nix that if your soldering iron has a tip over 1/16" wide or is not temperature controlled (600F).
        Last edited by Paul Alciatore; 03-27-2021, 02:12 AM.
        Paul A.
        SE Texas

        And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
        You will find that it has discrete steps.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes, once you get the terminal and crimper opening set up, you may find that the particular wire size and terminal do not result in a secure crimp, because the compression of the crimp is wrong.

          Mostly the size and wire gauge are related, but if you can look up the terminal, you should be able to find a piece of information that shows the proper crimped dimensions. If the dimensions end up as listed for a good crimp, you are OK.

          If you have no data, then you are only able to fall back on looking and doing a pull test. If the crimp looks well formed, not squashed and not loose, and the wire does not pull out with a force near that which will deform the wire, you are "probably" OK.

          The dimensions for that terminal and wire size as-crimped are the definitive check, however. Hit those and there should be no cause for complaint.
          CNC machines only go through the motions

          Comment


          • #6
            Maybe off topic.. The tool to the left is the best in the bunch. Id like to have it.

            The other pinchers? They also do the job. JR

            Comment


            • #7
              The STYLE of crimper you need is like the one on the right. That being where one side of the connector looks a bit like a curvy "W or "UU" shape to turn the wings around and inwards to bite into the conductors well. And I seem to recall this style on some ground lugs in some equipment. If so the end wings don't turn and bite into the insulation like Molex do. Instead they are staggered and simply wrap around and compress the insulation with the two fingers laying side by side where the ends overlap. I know I've seen this style on some "naked" ground lug connectors.

              The other tools you show aren't even in the ball park. The red handle crimpers being a fancy version of the yellow handle ones and the black handle tool being for some other sort of special crimp job.

              But while the right one has the right STYLE of crimping jaws I don't think it's the proper crimper. The spacing of the slots looks too small to take the connectors you have. Plus you say that the connectors don't fit which further nails that down. I suspect that the one you have on the right is for Molex or something very similar in my experience.

              Paul has the solution nailed down. If you want to use them correctly you're going to have to find out what they are and buy the proper crimping tool.
              Chilliwack BC, Canada

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BCRider View Post
                Paul has the solution nailed down. If you want to use them correctly you're going to have to find out what they are and buy the proper crimping tool.
                Haaa! Thats easy to say.

                Buy the proper crimping tool.

                I see it often here and I dont k now why.

                FYI? Money does not drop from my trees, just dead leaves,..

                Go price them and then let me know what it will be.

                I do know what tools cost. JR



                Comment


                • #9
                  Don't toss the yellow-handled tool. It's completely useless as a crimper, but the wire-stripper part usually works OK. Certainly that's all I use my pair for.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    J, my technique for testing a single, copper wire crimp is a little more ... err ... well brutal. I make a test crimp. Then I hold the terminal in a vise and pull on the wire until the point of failure. If the wire breaks, leaving a small piece in the terminal, then the crimp was good and I feel comfortable using that tool on that combination of wire and terminal. If the wire pulls completely out, the crimp was bad. I have returned crimp tools that failed this test and had no argument from the supplier.

                    Dimensions are difficult to check on terminals as small as those shown by the OP. You are gonna need a bigger ship ... err ... that is, smaller tips on your micrometer.



                    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                    Yes, once you get the terminal and crimper opening set up, you may find that the particular wire size and terminal do not result in a secure crimp, because the compression of the crimp is wrong.

                    Mostly the size and wire gauge are related, but if you can look up the terminal, you should be able to find a piece of information that shows the proper crimped dimensions. If the dimensions end up as listed for a good crimp, you are OK.

                    If you have no data, then you are only able to fall back on looking and doing a pull test. If the crimp looks well formed, not squashed and not loose, and the wire does not pull out with a force near that which will deform the wire, you are "probably" OK.

                    The dimensions for that terminal and wire size as-crimped are the definitive check, however. Hit those and there should be no cause for complaint.
                    Paul A.
                    SE Texas

                    And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
                    You will find that it has discrete steps.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have a love / hate relation with crimpers. A good crimp is great, but indeed it requires exactly the right tool and the right terminal for the wires. If you're bored go and have a look at popular connector types and find out you can actually buy twenty different terminals for the same connector and pin size. Wire gauge, brass, beryllium copper, tin, gold, silver, plating thickness, separate or on strip. And the official crimpers are all $400 or $1000+ for mil spec circular crimpers. For home stuff I just get the Chinese clones, I can't afford to buy the real ones.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The problem is not your crimpers--it's cheap terminals. Buy quality closed terminals.
                        12" x 35" Logan 2557V lathe
                        Index "Super 55" mill
                        18" Vectrax vertical bandsaw
                        7" x 10" Vectrax mitering bandsaw
                        24" State disc sander

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Paul's test may seem brutal, but not really. In the aerospace world the 'pull test' is an engineered/calibrated standard. I messed around with the vise as Paul has, and an overcrimp is worse than an undercrimp. If you overcrimp to the point of actually crushing the wire, it will break off right at the terminal.
                          The red one on left looks similar to the el-cheapie aircraft style, the T1710 looks like an old-school outdated aviation crimper, both use insulated terminal ends. If you have an aviation mil-spec crimp tool you cannot use automotive style terminals, (look the same) they will undercrimp badly.
                          Yes, you need the correct tool for any particular terminal

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Mike, take a close look at the photos and drawings in this ebay listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Micro-Conne...YAAOSw7gBgXl9X

                            Size wise this particular tool may not be exactly what you need but it illustrates the features.
                            Last edited by genea; 03-27-2021, 10:13 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Every one of those crimpers has a purpose, a terminal it is for. The advise to toss them is bad advice.

                              The red handled ones are for insulated faston connectors, and may do a good job if the correct color coded terminal is used with them.

                              The next to the right of it I do not actually know, I have never used that type, but it appears to also be for faston type connectors, and there are places for the (now long gone) color codes.

                              The yellow handled ones look like the universal faston crimpers. OK if the alternative is a couple of rocks banged together with the connector between...... but otherwise not to be used except as strippers.

                              The right hand set is a particular type of "F" crimper. As several of us said, no clue as to whether they will do the job with the particular connectors shown, but they are the only ones of the lot that are even designed to crimp that "type" of connector, so may as well try them.

                              Each manufacturer has a crimper for their terminals. No other crimper is actually "certified" for their terminals, but that does not mean no other one will make an acceptable crimp.

                              Oh, yes, anotehr point... "In general", crimps applied to solid wire are unacceptable. There are terminals/crimpers made for solid wire, but in usually all the crimpers shown are for use with stranded wire.

                              Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
                              J, my technique for testing a single, copper wire crimp is a little more ... err ... well brutal. I make a test crimp. Then I hold the terminal in a vise and pull on the wire until the point of failure. If the wire breaks, leaving a small piece in the terminal, then the crimp was good and I feel comfortable using that tool on that combination of wire and terminal. If the wire pulls completely out, the crimp was bad. I have returned crimp tools that failed this test and had no argument from the supplier.

                              Dimensions are difficult to check on terminals as small as those shown by the OP. You are gonna need a bigger ship ... err ... that is, smaller tips on your micrometer.



                              Paul, your test is the same as mine..... I do not require the wire to break, but I do often require it to yield. In reality, the test may not require that, but may require a so many kg pull without the wire coming out. So I may just pull it "hard enough" to check.

                              Since in those cases one is operating without the needed information, ALL tests are the wrong one, but any test is better than none.

                              The KEY part is ALWAYS the dimensions, because that is what determines the deformation and the degree to which the connection is "gas tight". That determines the reliability of the contact. You can have a connection that will not pull out at the designated force, but if the crimp dimensions are not correct, it is still going to fail.

                              It does not matter that the dimension is difficult to measure unless you have the right mic, it is still required if you want the correct crimp. If you just want the wire pretty well connected, then our pull test, etc is, well, "kinda OK". Better than squeezing with needle nose and calling it good, but we have no clue how much better.
                              Last edited by J Tiers; 03-27-2021, 11:01 AM.
                              CNC machines only go through the motions

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