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Grizzly 9x19 G4000 Spindle Bearing

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  • Grizzly 9x19 G4000 Spindle Bearing

    Got this lathe new the other day and doing the setup and spindle bearing break in. Is that tapered roller bearing really just lubed by those dinky oil holes?? Not running in a oil bath or grease able? Now the check balls are pushed down after I oiled? Back to the shop....
    Retired - Journeyman Refrigeration Pipefitter - Master Electrician

  • #2
    Appears to be a typical total loss oiling system.
    https://cdn0.grizzly.com/partslists/g4000_pl.pdf

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    • #3
      Pressured lubrication is costly to implement.
      You have a $1600.00 machine what exactly do you expect?

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      • #4
        You can try to wiggle the ball back up to where it's supposed to be with a pin. Sometimes this works, sometimes the ball oiler needs to be replaced depending on how bad it's been pushed down. If the ball is completely separate from the spring you'll likely have to replace it. Look for Gits ball oilers if you need to go this route.

        Tapered roller bearings only need a very small amount of oil to keep them happy so ball oilers serve their purpose very well without spending money to incorporate a sealed lube system or having to deal with repacking and re-setting bearing end play whenever you repack the bearings.

        I have one lathe here, a bit larger, that also uses the total loss ball oiler system for lubing the headstock bearings and in close to 17 or 18 years of use still maintains the same tight bearing end play as the day I bought it. I just give it a very small shot before use, works for me.
        Last edited by Willy; 03-27-2021, 07:25 PM.
        Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
        Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

        Location: British Columbia

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        • #5
          Well in the mean time I found a info source online stating the bearings are a one time grease deal and the oil ports are just a back up. No I did not expect a pressure system, I expected grease fittings or a oil filled gearbox like my Emco Super 11 had. Oil does not remain on ball or roller bearings for long.

          Yes I will yank out those POS oilers and put in real oil cups.

          PDF Link > http://www.users.on.net/~gene/Rebuild%20Manual.pdf
          Last edited by wmgeorge; 03-27-2021, 07:47 PM.
          Retired - Journeyman Refrigeration Pipefitter - Master Electrician

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          • #6
            I have replaced these oil cups with pressure lubrication nipples. Twice a year, I lubricate these bearings with a high-quality bearing grease. One - two strokes on the pressure grease gun are quite sufficient for this.
            The bearings on the spindle are tapered roller bearings. Oil at this point leaves the bearing immediately.
            My machine is now 30 years old and still has the first bearings installed. The spindle has no play in the bearings and runs smooth as butter.
            Last edited by Bruno Mueller; 03-30-2021, 04:21 AM.
            Many greetings from the southwest of Germany.
            Bruno
            http://www.mueller-bruno.de

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Bruno Mueller View Post
              I have replaced these oil cups with pressure lubrication nipples. Twice a year, I lubricate these bearings with a high-quality bearing grease. One - two strokes on the pressure grease gun are quite sufficient for this.
              The bearings on the spindle are tapered roller bearings. Oil at this point leaves the bearing immediately.
              My machine is now 30 years old and still has the first bearings installed. The spindle has no play in the bearings and runs smooth as butter.
              After great difficulty I found and ordered oil cups with lids and have the others removed and tossed. Bearings are oiled with 30 weight for now.

              Retired - Journeyman Refrigeration Pipefitter - Master Electrician

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              • #8
                For many decades the Atlas lathes in the hands of many home hobbyists have survived in very good condition despite having exactly the same oiling system, and using oil.

                Why the hand wringing and concern? Oil does NOT "immediately leave the bearing". A goodly amount of it stays in the roller and cage assembly. Even very thin oil will be retained.

                It actually does not take much oil to lube roller bearings. Many very high speed ball bearings are lubricated with a fine oil mist. If much oil were in the bearing at those speeds, the bearing would overheat and fail immediately, I have seen it happen.

                If they are actually greased on this machine, then that is OK. No need for oil if they are greased, but now that they have been oiled, the grease may be partly washed away, requiring regular oiling now. Another good reason to read the instructions first.

                This being a made-in-china machine, there is no guarantee that the oiling system actually delivers oil to the bearings properly. Especially if it is a "secondary" or "backup" lubrication system. In the case of the Atlas, the oiling system clearly does the job well. The Grizzly? Who knows?



                4357 2773 5647 3671 3645 0087 1276

                CNC machines only go through the motions

                "There's no pleasing these serpents"......Lewis Carroll

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                • #9
                  how does the oil get into such a bearing? does the race have a hole?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dian View Post
                    how does the oil get into such a bearing? does the race have a hole?
                    it's made in china. Maybe the oil does NOT get there. Would not be the first time.

                    Normally, it would be delivered to to one face of the bearing (roller bearings of this type are not sealed) and enters there. The recess would be made to retain some oil in the lowest portion of the bearing.

                    There is no hole in the bearing race.
                    4357 2773 5647 3671 3645 0087 1276

                    CNC machines only go through the motions

                    "There's no pleasing these serpents"......Lewis Carroll

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

                      it's made in china. Maybe the oil does NOT get there. Would not be the first time.

                      Normally, it would be delivered to to one face of the bearing (roller bearings of this type are not sealed) and enters there. The recess would be made to retain some oil in the lowest portion of the bearing.

                      There is no hole in the bearing race.
                      Its a tapered roller bearing that is shielded not sealed, oil goes in past the shield. The instructions say oil the indicated oil ports once per day. There are seals on the outside of the bearing race in the HS to keep it from slinging oil all over the machine. This 9x19 (20) has been made for years by the Chinese and others copied off the Emco C8. Grease in a tight fitted tapered roller bearing has to be the correct type and weight otherwise it will overheat and destroy the bearing. Others on here have commented they have used oil for years.... I was just double checking. I used 30 weight oil, the issue was the POS Chinese oilers where the ball gets pushed down and blocks the passage.
                      Retired - Journeyman Refrigeration Pipefitter - Master Electrician

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                      • #12
                        Shielded will retain oil if you can get it in past the shields.

                        I think it was here that someone posted about oil ports that simply dead-ended at the OD of the outer race..... NO path for the oil to get into the bearings. Apparently the casting was not changed, it was made for bronze bearings, and just bored larger for ball/roller bearings, which were presumably greased.

                        That could result in a nasty surprise for a later owner.
                        4357 2773 5647 3671 3645 0087 1276

                        CNC machines only go through the motions

                        "There's no pleasing these serpents"......Lewis Carroll

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                        • #13
                          I know a fellow who removed the oil sight-glass on his china special. It was sealed, had 'permanently perfect' oil level!
                          Southwest Utah

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                          • #14
                            One has to wonder if the lube problems on lathes that rely on this method of bearing lubrication is one of perception or reality.
                            These types of lathes have been manufactured for decades so I'm guessing the production numbers must surely be in the hundreds of thousands.
                            Not that I've been following this issue closely but if these tapered roller bearings were not receiving an adequate amount of lubrication failures would be very prevalent, yet the chorus of owners have been very silent given their numbers.

                            As mentioned, this type of bearing requires only a minute amount of lubrication to live a long life. They do not require an oil bath to live a long life. Likely one of the reasons they are used extensively in high power/high rpm two stroke engines that live long lives with as little as 100:1 fuel/oil ratios.

                            Ever shake a grease lubed automotive wheel bearing with well over a hundred thousand plus miles on it? They seem apparently dry and they rattle in your hand from lack of apparent lube. The rollers and races appear almost bone dry yet they live a very long life due to an almost microscopic film of oil on them left over from the grease that is essentially just a carrier for the lube oil. Most are good to be put back into service unless the hub has seen water ingestion.

                            I find it strange also that your bearings are shielded. Looking at Grizzy's parts list I see that they use a gasket on the outboard ends however the bearings appear to be open. Makes sense to not use a shielded bearing for this application both for cost and functionality.

                            As I mentioned I have one lathe a bit larger than this that uses a similar headstock bearing lube system. This lathe is used a lot and after almost 18 years of use the spindle end-play is non existent while runout as measured on the inside of the MT4 taper is just a tick over .0001", maybe .00015", last time I checked early last fall, and all I've ever done was to give each ball oiler 2-3 drops of oil before it's daily use while the spindle is turning.
                            So in my case at least the system does work very well without having the added expense of an enclosed system. I'd rather the money was spent somewhere else on a lathe in this price range.

                            Nothing at all wrong though with going to oil cups but keep in mind that the oil will run out sooner than later once it gets past the bearing. I see that a lot of folks do have an issue with getting oil into ball oilers but I am blessed with several oil pump cans that have just the right tip size to seal over the ball while not pushing the ball in too far so it has been a non-issue for me. This has also contributed to not being hesitant on oiling when necessary.

                            Lots of folks hate ball oilers to the point of this dislike leads to not lubing as required. Although not a personal issue this is my biggest beef with them. Putting them on a machine when they lead nowhere is just plain blasphemy and sacrilegious.
                            Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                            Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                            Location: British Columbia

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                            • #15
                              Who said the oil holes go no where? I can look down inside and see what looks like the back side of a bearing, small view. The issue was the ball oilers was that the ball was jammed down Blocking the oil flow. I removed those and intend to install standard lid type oil cups and oil those bearings once per day while in operation, its not a glass drip oilier. Yes the gaskets are mounted in the HS to keep excess oil from slinging out. I may not be correct about the shielded bearing.
                              Last edited by wmgeorge; 03-31-2021, 09:06 AM.
                              Retired - Journeyman Refrigeration Pipefitter - Master Electrician

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