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Pea Shooter Chronicles (first gen honda insight mods)

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  • #16
    Unless you're measuring fuel economy with stand-alone equipment in a lab there's no way to get an accurate fuel economy number. The built-in systems cars use is a guesstimate at best and in any case there are too many factors on the street to get a solid, repeatable, number.

    The only reason intake preheating was popular in the carbureted era was to get the fuel to evaporate (instead of puddle) in a cold intake manifold. There's no need to preheat intake air on a fuel-injected engine (ok, some diesels do as a starting aid).

    In any event, fuel sprayed with an injector isn't in the air long enough to pick up any meaningful heat that would affect evaporation or atomization.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by CarlByrns View Post
      Unless you're measuring fuel economy with stand-alone equipment in a lab there's no way to get an accurate fuel economy number. The built-in systems cars use is a guesstimate at best and in any case there are too many factors on the street to get a solid, repeatable, number.

      The only reason intake preheating was popular in the carbureted era was to get the fuel to evaporate (instead of puddle) in a cold intake manifold. There's no need to preheat intake air on a fuel-injected engine (ok, some diesels do as a starting aid).

      In any event, fuel sprayed with an injector isn't in the air long enough to pick up any meaningful heat that would affect evaporation or atomization.
      Not just using the real time fuel economy reading as it coincides extremely close to the tripometer and gallon usage when I fill up,,,

      as far as ambient air temp not making a difference in fuel economy in a fuel injected engine I totally believe it depends on the layout and who designed it, what sensors are being used and how the programming is done and make no mistake these guys went for it on this car - there really has not been anything like it since...

      With all their effort - aluminum frame and skin, hybrid system, a drag coefficient of .25 you then have to ask --- Did they change the mix due to what's coming into an air box from say 25 F to 90 F? of course - that's what the ambient air temp sensors for --- but did they change their mix even further simply for the spray pattern coming out of the injector nozzle getting blasted by extremely cold air VS warm that's proven to atomize better even at the injector sight? my take on it would be absolutely esp. with how iv all but eliminated all other possibilities --- Time will tell...


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      • #18
        Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post

        With all their effort - aluminum frame and skin, hybrid system, a drag coefficient of .25 you then have to ask --- Did they change the mix due to what's coming into an air box from say 25 F to 90 F? of course - that's what the ambient air temp sensors for --- but did they change their mix even further simply for the spray pattern coming out of the injector nozzle getting blasted by extremely cold air VS warm that's proven to atomize better even at the injector sight? my take on it would be absolutely esp. with how iv all but eliminated all other possibilities --- Time will tell...
        Yes Sir, they did that type of crazy bunk back then, Not so much in modern age, meaning 80s on up, (F-the 80s cars, sorry, had one or some) .

        It worked with less refined Gasoline than we have now. The Gains wont be there, JR
        My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

        https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

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        • #19
          Originally posted by JRouche View Post

          Yes Sir, they did that type of crazy bunk back then, Not so much in modern age, meaning 80s on up, (F-the 80s cars, sorry, had one or some) .

          It worked with less refined Gasoline than we have now. The Gains wont be there, JR
          Think You misunderstood, this car was a huge effort and it's not "back then" it's first year of introduction was the year 2000

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          • #20
            Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post

            Think You misunderstood, this car was a huge effort and it's not "back then" it's first year of introduction was the year 2000
            I did not know it was a modern car. Wow, I thought they gave up on it years ago. I know there are kits for the person looking for gains. Didnt know the manufactures were doing it. Thanks for info.. JR
            My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

            https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

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            • #21
              Originally posted by JRouche View Post

              I did not know it was a modern car. Wow, I thought they gave up on it years ago. I know there are kits for the person looking for gains. Didnt know the manufactures were doing it. Thanks for info.. JR
              JR, that's my whole purpose for posting the mods in the first place - as advance as it is - and in fact beyond anything of its time and many could argue even as to date, it does not have this feature --- up until about last week that is when I created it for it... now it will absolutely benefit even more - how much remains to be seen...

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              • #22
                AK, all these modifications raise a question in my mind: do you have smog checks in Colorado?

                -js
                There are no stupid questions. But there are lots of stupid answers. This is the internet.

                Location: SF Bay Area

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Jim Stewart View Post
                  AK, all these modifications raise a question in my mind: do you have smog checks in Colorado?

                  -js
                  Actually - good question -- and even though "not where im at" keep in mind -- the only thing im doing is making the engine think it's summer when it's actually winter time --- so - smog checks or not - perfectly fine making the car feel like it's living in florida all year round in comparison to where it's actually living right?

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                  • #24
                    Ten or twelve years ago I would go down to Starbucks for an hour or two in the afternoon. One of the baristas was a high school senior, nice guy, friendly, smart, and a serious gearhead.

                    So was his dad. They had a late-model Mustang that they'd massaged *very* heavily - I got updated reports on dyno runs as they went further and further. Last report I got was it dynoed at 510 HP. He was a straight shooter and I don't think for a minute that he was exaggerating.

                    But what about smog checks (we're in California)? Yep, every two years we have to get one.

                    Every two years he and his dad would spend a weekend pulling the engine out of the Mustang and installing a pure stock one. Smog check. Next weekend they would swap the good engine back in.

                    These guys were serious gearheads.

                    -js
                    Last edited by Jim Stewart; 04-08-2021, 09:04 PM.
                    There are no stupid questions. But there are lots of stupid answers. This is the internet.

                    Location: SF Bay Area

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Jim Stewart View Post
                      Ten or twelve years ago I would go down to Starbucks for an hour or two in the afternoon. One of the baristas was a high school senior, nice guy, friendly, smart, and a serious gearhead.

                      So was his dad. They had a late-model Mustang that they'd massaged *very* heavily - I got updated reports on dyno runs as they went further and further. Last report I got was it dynoed at 510 HP. He was a straight shooter and I don't think for a minute that he was exaggerating.

                      But what about smog checks (we're in California)? Yep, every two years we have to get one.

                      Every two years he and his dad would spend a weekend pulling the engine out of the Mustang and installing a pure stock one. Smog check. Next weekend they would swap the good engine back in.

                      These guys were serious gearheads.

                      -js
                      LOL ----- well you gotta figure - not everyone's going to be that committed so not that much of a big deal with the air quality...

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Jim Stewart View Post
                        ..................

                        But what about smog checks (we're in California)? Yep, every two years we have to get one.

                        Every two years he and his dad would spend a weekend pulling the engine out of the Mustang and installing a pure stock one. Smog check. Next weekend they would swap the good engine back in.

                        These guys were serious gearheads.

                        -js
                        They gave up here........ For older vehicles, pre OBDII, no more smog check, just safety inspection. You could leave the race engine in it.
                        2801 3147 6749 8779 4900 4900 4900

                        Keep eye on ball.
                        Hashim Khan


                        It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

                          They gave up here........ For older vehicles, pre OBDII, no more smog check, just safety inspection. You could leave the race engine in it.
                          It kinda makes sense to do that. Pre obd2 are mostly dust in many parts of the country due to environmental issues. They rust out.

                          Some places like Socal they dont and jimmy the hog hauler will drive his smoking car or truck till it dies, Then they just rebuild it into the new smog wagon. lol

                          My 62 chivy runs very clean. And at about 425hp on pump, low grade even. I built the entire power plant though.

                          What some folks dont get is clean means lean and that is power. Yeah, I use two separate O2 sensors and and too many computers, so wht JR


                          My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

                          https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

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                          • #28
                            is there no tuning software available for the car? (what model was it again?). i use efilife for my ls engines.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by dian View Post
                              is there no tuning software available for the car? (what model was it again?). i use efilife for my ls engines.
                              Yes in fact there's all kinds of stuff you can do but im fine with the programming they come with --- once you get to know the car, the recharge and assist modes and when they kick in then in effect what you do is become a "program enabler" you know the programming so well you just drive the car accordingly to milk the most out of what it can do,,,

                              as far as mixture programming - im not interested at all in messing with that - honda already has this thing maxed out and i do not want to mess with manipulating that any further...

                              I am perfectly happy with what this thing is capable of doing --- it's incredible --- 70+ mpg's in the summer, nothing more is needed, I just want to stay close to that rating all year round and think iv already achieved a way of doing it...
                              Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 04-09-2021, 10:50 AM.

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                              • #30
                                I like what you're doing to help keep the cold weather mileage figures up there, I believe you are on the right track.

                                However there are certain aspects of cold weather mileage figures being lower that are simply out of one's control.

                                We all know that the viscous drag of lubricants and fluids throughout the system will have an impact but it goes beyond that. Things like the tires being less flexible, and then there's winter gasoline, that although more volatile in the winter will also have less energy density by volume. Speaking of tires, they will also loose air pressure so that too will contribute to increased rolling resistance.
                                Also in spite of your car having a low coefficient of drag, the aerodynamic drag that it and the tires do have will be remarkably greater in cold temps than warm simply because it is more dense, or thicker if you will. Much harder to push a knife through jello that water.
                                Then there is the increased use of lights, wipers and heaters which all increase the load on the system.

                                Individually it may not seem significant, add all those factors up together and it turns into a sizable hurdle that can't be ignored or overcome.
                                Just didn't want you to be discouraged next winter when it gets cold again and anticipated mileage hasn't kept pace with development work expectations.
                                Some things are just beyond our control.
                                Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                                Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                                Location: British Columbia

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