Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Oil for 9x19 Spindle

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • wmgeorge
    replied
    https://www.mcmaster.com/iso-32-oil/

    Leave a comment:


  • J Tiers
    replied
    Originally posted by dian View Post
    no idea what you are saying. iso 4406 test procerdures being b.s.? and yes, bearing manufacturers. do you think they make such a fuss about lubricants just to pull your leg? velocite is a spindle oil, so you are using the right stuff.
    Things are recommended for many reasons.

    I'd offer a bet that most manufacturers do not do life tests on different oils/greases , and that the specification of a particular oil is basically "take the bearing manufacturer's spec, and go up a notch or two just to be safe". In some cases it may be tech manual "boilerplate text", used in all or many similar manuals, and dating from some long-retired engineer's W.A.G.

    That does not make it BS, but it means that there is little in the way of a "scientific background" for the specification. That's simply that the rigid requirement for that type of lubricant and only that type is likely "BS", many others would perform as well or better.

    That has ZERO to do with ISO specs...... which are just defining standard types. The manufacturer simply specifies from the list of things that can be found in the market at the time of manufacture, which will be made to specs of ISO, SAE, JIS, chinese manufacturer's association, etc..
    Last edited by J Tiers; 04-07-2021, 12:10 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • dian
    replied
    no idea what you are saying. iso 4406 test procerdures being b.s.? and yes, bearing manufacturers. do you think they make such a fuss about lubricants just to pull your leg? velocite is a spindle oil, so you are using the right stuff.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mcgyver
    replied
    I think you are succumbing to the marketing.

    It would be interesting to see data on the cleanliness of two oils - say Velocite and a mobile hydraulic oil, however both are clean mineral oils with antioxidants and anti foaming additives. How at the same viscosity do you think they deliver different lubricity? I wouldn't be surprised if like Canadian beer flavours it all came out of the same tap.

    I also think most manufacturers brand recommendations are BS, or least highly suspect. Clear conflict of interest, they're give low prices on the oil they buy in exchange for the recommendation. The machine tool maker will tell you only use ABC super duper oil, where is the bearing maker (and who should really know?) will tell you, use a clean mineral oil.

    If you want a less conflicted view, look what the bearing companies say.

    I use Velocity in the small plan spindle stuff because its the right ISO and hydraulic oil bath type stuff - i.e. engine lathe gearboxes (which also lubricate the spindle)

    Leave a comment:


  • dian
    replied
    oil with higher lubricity, see above.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mcgyver
    replied
    Originally posted by dian View Post
    sounds good, but instead of "thicker"oil it might be appropriate to use "better" oil. this is what im trying to get accross.
    explain how its better.

    Leave a comment:


  • dian
    replied
    sounds good, but instead of "thicker"oil it might be appropriate to use "better" oil. this is what im trying to get accross.

    Leave a comment:


  • David Powell
    replied
    Any oil is better than no oil, the right oil is better than the wrong oil, the proper thing to do is to apply the right oil in the right quantity at the correct intervals. And if the whole shebang is as worn as some of the old junk I have used then thicker oils than specified might help you get a bit more life before major repairs are essential. Regards David Powell.

    Leave a comment:


  • dian
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

    And maybe not..... hydraulic oil of any particular viscosity is pretty similar for most applications..... it has to be clean and consistent so as not to foul up the valves in the control system.

    Just because it is "for tractors" does not mean it is low quality stuff full of dirt and hay particles (at least not coming out of the bottle, what happens later is up to you).
    hydraulic oils/fluids is a broad cathegory of products ranging from brake fluid to turbine oil. there are several classification systems defining quality and intended use like (h)/hl/hlp/hlp-d/hvlp/hvlp-d or hh/hl/hm/hr/hg/hs/hf-x and about a dozen of industry approvals. similar situation as for automotive oils.

    spindle oils are higly refined "hydraulic" oils with appropriate antiwear, air-release/antifoaming, deposit formation (detergent/dispersion*), antioxidation chemistry for bearings. their cleanliness is defined by iso 4406/sae 4059 and they will often be labeled "ultra fine filtered" or "hyperclean. they should conform to astm d1500/d156 "0.5" color class. it will make a difference if you chose a "hl" or hvlp-d oil (as per din 51524). purity should be iso 15/13/10 /sae 8. they should be fd or fc (for clutches) class according to iso 6743.

    "regular" hydraulic oil is just that: to be used in hydraulic systems. if you look up any "hydraulic oil" you will not find spindles under intended applications. (of course you can use spindle oil in your car jack.) "universal hydraulic" oils have been formulated and can be used if conformimg to above specs.

    tractor oil (utto, stou):

    this is an "all purpose" automatic transmission fluid (often with reduced nitrogen levels to go easy on gaskets). it will drive tractor transmissions, hydraulic pumps and valves, power steering, power brakes, gears and probably anything else. it can be used in the engine*** and even on hypoid gears (gl-4/gl-5) if in has the right specification.

    you could run it in your bearings too, if you were to find one with a spec. for spindles. but whats the point? do you use ski-wax on your car? get the right oil for the application**. it easy: https://www.mcmaster.com/iso-15-oil/

    info on some properties of spindle oil and their standards: https://www.mil-specproducts.com/Doc...-Spindle22.pdf

    for reference:

    http://precisiontoolsupply.ca/innova...ce%20Chart.pdf
    https://www.plantengineering.com/wp-...ationGuide.pdf


    *yes, spinde oils have those (contrary to popular belief).
    ** i like this one, simply because these guys give you the four ball test wear. its of no use, however, as there is little info to compare it to.
    *** often rated sae w10-30

    et ceterum (i hate to sound like a broken record, but its essencial): kinematic viscosity is not the deciding property of lubricants, its just the simplest to understand. it tells you how fast the fluid will run through an oricife under it own weight. if its were the case, you could use syrup, or some other liquid of the same viscosity in your bearings. kinematic viscosity it loosely related to dynamic viscosity, especially in modern oils and does tell nothing about lubricity (prevention of contact between asperities) and management of oxides, which are the the two main properties pertaining to adhesive wear and failure in bearings.
    Last edited by dian; 04-07-2021, 04:43 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • tom_d
    replied
    Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post

    it was a jab at the green companies pricing methods
    I must have been bent down to tie my shoe laces.......it went right over my head.

    Leave a comment:


  • wmgeorge
    replied
    OMG folks its hydraulic oil ISO 32 spec, not tractor oil and John Deere Co is world wide makes tractors, dirt moving equipment and much more. I found my nearly full 1 qt bottle and its enough for a lifetime of my spindle oiling. Over and done, thanks again for the help Tom.

    Leave a comment:


  • J Tiers
    replied
    Originally posted by dian View Post
    there might be a difference between spindle oil and tractor oil.
    And maybe not..... hydraulic oil of any particular viscosity is pretty similar for most applications..... it has to be clean and consistent so as not to foul up the valves in the control system.

    Just because it is "for tractors" does not mean it is low quality stuff full of dirt and hay particles (at least not coming out of the bottle, what happens later is up to you).

    Leave a comment:


  • Mcgyver
    replied
    Originally posted by tom_d View Post
    The economics of scale. Keep in mind that on some of the larger machines it's not unusual to have reservoir capacities of 40 - 50 gallons. Running a few of those in your fleet and you might need to inventory close to 500 gallons of fluid. How much Velocite does the average user keep on hand?
    it was a jab at the green companies pricing methods

    Leave a comment:


  • dian
    replied
    there might be a difference between spindle oil and tractor oil.

    Leave a comment:


  • 140mower
    replied
    Originally posted by tom_d View Post





    Ummm......you want to try some of that grease where?
    I think we might already have too much information.....😳

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X