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5C Collets For Tap Shanks

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  • Mcgyver
    replied
    to not over complicate or spend a fortune....why not just make a sleeve? It only has to withstand grinding forces. Turn the OD to whatever, ID to fit the tap all without disturbing the work. part off and saw it in half. done.
    Last edited by Mcgyver; 04-09-2021, 06:13 PM.

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  • JoeLee
    replied
    Originally posted by Illinoyance View Post

    Unfortunately mine came with no collets. I bought a 5C to ER32 adapter. I can hold any size tap shank up to 20mm.

    OP should buy an ER collet chuck with an R8 shank. Very handy in the mill as well.
    Why would you need one for the mill unless you have some oddball end mill shanks that you don't have collets for. Maybe for drills.

    JL..............



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  • Illinoyance
    replied
    Originally posted by masheenest View Post
    A "Polychoke" tap sharpening fixture comes with collets to fit tap shanks.
    Unfortunately mine came with no collets. I bought a 5C to ER32 adapter. I can hold any size tap shank up to 20mm.

    OP should buy an ER collet chuck with an R8 shank. Very handy in the mill as well.

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  • dian
    replied
    just be aware that all claims of runout are bogus. there seems to be no standard of measurement. it makes a difference if you take a reading at the collet or 10xdiameter out (like for drill chucks). even my regofix ultra precision collets (5µ advertised) dont live up to it, although in this range measurement are becomming questionable (or take a lot of extreme care).

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  • JoeLee
    replied
    Originally posted by dian View Post
    so is the reason for all this to make the taps fit your tapping guide? make a suitable tip for it. i have.
    Well, it started out making collets or sleeves for my taps but has evolved into my interest in getting a set of ER's.

    JL...............

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  • dian
    replied
    so is the reason for all this to make the taps fit your tapping guide? make a suitable tip for it. i have.

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  • JoeLee
    replied
    Originally posted by Toolguy View Post
    I got mine from ArcEurotrade. They are on eBay and Amazon, too. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Precision-C...EAAOSwk-Jd6b4-
    Did you ever check the run out on this holder??
    As I was looking at various brands of ER32's I see the TMX ToolMex / Bison ones say .0004 concentricity. Some say .0001. I always thought TMX was pretty good quality.
    Are some brands more accurate than others?? There are quite a few out there, most I never heard of.

    JL............

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  • JoeLee
    replied
    That's a good chart to have ...... TNX......

    JL.............

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  • Ian B
    replied
    Here's a table of ER collet sizes: https://community.carbide3d.com/t/er...ts-sizes/20664

    Ian

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  • JoeLee
    replied
    Originally posted by BCRider View Post

    To be fair if you drilled 1/4" and with most drills tending to drill slightly over their nominal size chances are good that a split bush drilled to 1/4 would slide over the tap shank with a nice satisfying squeeze. But the odds of the drill wandering a hair are also good so it may not be totally centered. And that's where we come back to drilling 15/64 or a letter size that is a little under and skim out to size which also trues up any centering errors.

    I was assuming that you already knew about ER collets due to all the mentions that they get here on the forum. But since that isn't the case I think you'll enjoy one of the ER chucks with the 5C shank to fit your present 5C tooling.

    As for the taps what is wrong with the cone that is already on them? What you see is what the factory put there for centering up the tap for some of the operations during manufacturing. It just means you need a little bigger cup for the tapping guide. And if you did make the cones that are there already by the time they were sharp enough to fit a small center cone there won't be much or perhaps no square left. I'm thinking that what you need is either a bigger cup on your spring loaded guide or a new bigger guide suitable for the sizes that don't have the little center hole.


    I knew they existed but like most things you never really pay attention to the details until you need one.

    I've seen them advertised for years. There are quite a few brands out there. Who is good and who isn't?? ETM or TMX (Tool Mex) comes to mind.
    Lots of other brands out there that I've never heard of. Are they all about the same ?? .0004 concentricity........ about as bad as a cheap 5C.

    Cheaper to buy like an 11 pc set than individually.

    JL.................

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  • JoeLee
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

    I have a ton of taps from a wide range of manufacturers. I also have an old crappy Cedarberg tapping "machine" (frame that holds a tap driver at 90 deg to surface) that I got for a buck with no holders.

    So I went through the taps, and found that essentially every one fell into one of six sizes. I made a holder for each size, and I have yet to find a tap that does not fit them. Each size was a drill size within close limits. I drilled and reamed with a modified drill for the sizes that I had no reamer (trick from an ancient toolmakers handbook).

    You can do what you like, or put me on ignore. My rule in the shop for tools that I find I need, is generally that I only buy what I cannot make (or can get for less money than if I made it). It's not 100% followed, but usually so. (exception for things I find at tag sales that I can see wanting). I'm generally not a production house, so anything I make is good shop time.
    That's about what I found also.
    I started making a few collets for the taps. So far after drilling the tap doesn't fit the hole but after I slit it I'm sure it'll spring enough for a good fit.
    I can get better concentricity than the .0004 that these ER's have.

    JL..........

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  • J Tiers
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
    How do you figure the tap shanks are drill size?? They are close.
    ........

    Sure, the sleeve will expand a little but for that perfect fit it will have to be bored unless I order special size reamers. This is where the ERs come in handy.

    The shank sizes may differ from one mfg. to the other. These measurements are taken from the ones that I need to point. The bushings would have to be thin walled as 5C collets don't have the squeeze power that a chuck has, but that's not an issue since I'll be lightly grinding the bevels.

    JL.................
    I have a ton of taps from a wide range of manufacturers. I also have an old crappy Cedarberg tapping "machine" (frame that holds a tap driver at 90 deg to surface) that I got for a buck with no holders.

    So I went through the taps, and found that essentially every one fell into one of six sizes. I made a holder for each size, and I have yet to find a tap that does not fit them. Each size was a drill size within close limits. I drilled and reamed with a modified drill for the sizes that I had no reamer (trick from an ancient toolmakers handbook).

    You can do what you like, or put me on ignore. My rule in the shop for tools that I find I need, is generally that I only buy what I cannot make (or can get for less money than if I made it). It's not 100% followed, but usually so. (exception for things I find at tag sales that I can see wanting). I'm generally not a production house, so anything I make is good shop time.
    Last edited by J Tiers; 04-08-2021, 01:25 PM.

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  • jimsehr
    replied
    Shars has 5c emergency collets for $7.50 . Buy a few and bore them to size. I don’t think you could hardly by the material to make bushings that cheap.

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  • BCRider
    replied
    I don't see much point in a 5C to R8 adapter unless we only have R8 collets. The 5C collets are not expensive and they come in a wider range of sizes and shapes by far than R8's. And they hold in the same manner with a short and focused grip area right at the nose.

    And an R8 held in a 5C? "Reportedly" does not do justice to how sketchy that idea is. I can't imagine holding an R8 in a 5C collet and pressing in on the smaller diameter mid area is going to come to any good at all. Especially since many (all in my case) R8 collets and shanks on solid shank R8's are relieved in the middle to thin the walls for more flexibility and not ground in that area. It simply won't work in most cases at all. You'd never get the fat end to fit through the size of collet needed to fit the relieved middle portion.

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  • thin-woodsman
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
    How do you hold an R8 in a 5C collet?? What is going to close the R8 ?
    Well, the ER32 has an R8 shank, so there is no R8 collet involved.

    I had come across the use of a 31/32 5C for machining a blank R8 collet. It might work to hold the ER32 chuck, it might not.

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