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K&T No3 K 1st cuts

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  • K&T No3 K 1st cuts

    I finally got out to the shop to play. It's been a screwy year so far. Between work, weather, covid-19, rebuilding a Case 850C backhoe, engines builds for the kid... It sucks.

    On to better shop news . Some of you might know, I bought this K&T at an auction for a little over $300 last Summer. I put a bid on it and got it. It was listed as a No 2 @4k lb. The No3 weighs in @7k-8k lb. Moving something this big is not easy and now I know why I got it. It is a 1943 war survivor.

    It now has a new 3 Phase 10HP motor. The 1943 old motor had a bad winding. Thank you all for the help with the wiring and the fuses. Going from 440 to 220, I never knew you had to double the size of the fuse when you drop voltage. (I learn so much as I work on stuff)

    I pulled the transmission and cleaned out the sump. The gears in there looked great and I found zero chips. The sump did have a goo in the bottom.

    I still need to finish cleaning out the sump. I need to pick of a cheap high flow pump to finish flushing it out. I Cleaned most of it using a 5 gal bucket, a small hose, and it hooked to a shop vac. This worked well but I could only get so much. The plan is to open the sump, lower the back end with a pan under it. and see if I can get the rest of the crap out.

    This came with two shafts and I now have a total of 5 shafts. I spent the morning cleaning them from lite rust. The one in use is a 1" and is straight. I am still looking for larger shafts. I have a more cutters with large openings. I am also still looking for cutters. I have a means to sharpen old ones and have bought a couple to learn that skill.

    I am also looking for a head for this. I also thinking about building a mount for a Bridgeport head on the upper bars. I've seen some of these and I can see were having the quill would be very useful.

    The 1st cut is a small cut. The first cut is for my Bridgeport. I picked up a Servo for my x-axis and it was missing some of the parts. I need to make the shaft that extends the screw for the handle.



    Excuse the mess on the table but like all shops any thing flat becomes storage space. I also just got done re organizing my shop.

    The next step is to pull the table off and clean. I am not sure if the wicks are good. I have all ready bought new wicks. The knee? still needs to have a oil change. I also have to clean the grease out of the left handle gearbox. Today, I found the past owner filled this with a green grease??? Not sure why but it has keep the gears for rusting.

    The grease could also be the problem I found with the y-axis. The high speed works but the normal feed is hit or miss. Same in both directions. If anyone has some info on this problem please let me know. When I pull the table I am sure I'll find something.


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    Sorry this got long, More to follow.

  • #2
    Hi,

    I've got more than an hour or two in running one of those myself. Even had one that was metric. It was meant to be sent to France just before the German invasion happened and it never made it over there.

    Couple of handy items. Get yourself a decent 4" insert face mill. Then make yourself a nice bar that's long enough to mount perpendicular to the table. Make some nice heavy duty hold down clamps. Then you can quickly and easily square up large plates by hanging them a bit over the back of the table. The face mill will make very short work of getting the edges square.

    The y axis slipping under feed rates but working under rapid is a bit odd. There is a slip clutch inside the knee that consists of a short splined shaft with a cup that holds springs and ball bearings the mates with a driven gear on the back end. The knee and table are stupid heavy and it's this slip clutch that generally causes problems. And the parts were unobtainium 25 years ago already. It was not a very robust design element.

    Be careful if you are removing the feed rate mechanism. There are taper pins on the backside of the housing that are a bear to get at. And I think the feed had to be set to the slowest rate on the dial before starting disassembly. Otherwise you will hate your life for a good long time before you figure out the timing again. There is also at least one needle bearing inside that feed rate housing that I remember.

    If you should be so unfortunate as to want to remove the front of the knee, there are more taper pins in there also. Plus a decent number of the bearings in there are no longer made. So be very gentle with those bearings.

    The gears inside that left housing behind the feed selector dial are not pressure oiled or sump oiled. If I remember correctly, they were lubed by whatever meager gear oil got tossed into those gears though a relatively small opening in knee under the housing by the knee gears.
    If you think you understand what is going on, you haven't been paying attention.

    Comment


    • #3
      You are looking for “horizontal milling arbors” probably style B-calling them “shafts” will get you banned from heavy iron club meetings. 😁

      The late, great Harry Beckley (beckley23) discussed K&T feed problems on the heavy iron forum of PM. Same storyline as related by dalee.

      A 25hp 6CK is selling in Nebraska later this month. Table looks 5 yards long! Has a vertical head AND feed problems....Can pm auction details if needed.

      Comment


      • #4
        Shafts as said arbours, make sure the arbour is supported before tightening, they look beefy but bend, then it’s chomp chomp chomp chomp when cutting, my arbour is 40 taper, yours are probably 50 taper, cheaper oddly
        mark

        Comment


        • #5
          Got it "arbors". I used a #2 in high school... that was @40 years ago to as part of making a vice. I do remember the teacher made sure we knew the names of the parts but that was many beers ago.
          The 4" facing mill. I've been looking for a 4" and 6".

          Steve Summer has a No2 and pulled the table. https://youtu.be/mN7u1toXEQs So I have a some kind of a how to. But I will put it in the lowest gear.

          I don't think I could pull the knee.

          The oil in the knee is black. I have the oil. I just need to do it. I making new level lens too.

          It is a #50 taper. I also bought one from MrPete222. My Leblond No2 uses a #50 taper. https://thisisjust4fun.weebly.com/up...750_1_orig.jpg

          6 CK??? No Getting this one home a bent some of the beams on my trailer when the mill shifted on the trailer. I have since fixed the trailer, cutting out four cross beams and welding in new.

          If you what to see all the photos: https://thisisjust4fun.weebly.com/ke...waukee-3k.html

          Comment


          • #6
            As far as bent arbors-The arbor spacers have a critical effect on how the arbor runs. They REALLY need to have clean, square, un-dinged ends. The textbooks all say it, but I didn’t truly believe until I saw the before and after runout by finding&fixing one wonky spacer. Went from “see it from across the shop” to “good enough”.

            Comment


            • #7
              I plan on checking all the spacers. It will be a long day sitting in front of the granite.

              I am having a problem with some of the bearing spacers and them fitting into the overarm supports. I have two that fit and 4 that are too tight to fit.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SVS View Post
                As far as bent arbors-The arbor spacers have a critical effect on how the arbor runs. They REALLY need to have clean, square, un-dinged ends. The textbooks all say it, but I didn’t truly believe until I saw the before and after runout by finding&fixing one wonky spacer. Went from “see it from across the shop” to “good enough”.
                I can see that - I'll have to check mine. Thanks. Too bad I never read any those textbooks 🙂

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by SVS View Post
                  As far as bent arbors-The arbor spacers have a critical effect on how the arbor runs. They REALLY need to have clean, square, un-dinged ends.
                  [snip]
                  I want to check my spacers, but I don't have a surface plate. Is there any other way to check them that would be good enough?

                  If I assume (!) that they were originally - from the factory - square, would cleaning & de-dinging the ends be sufficient? Or would de-dinging risk making them worse?

                  If I make a new arbor (e.g., a different size) & need to make new spacers, would parting-off on the lathe ensure parallelism of the faces?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bob Engelhardt View Post

                    I want to check my spacers, but I don't have a surface plate. Is there any other way to check them that would be good enough?

                    If I assume (!) that they were originally - from the factory - square, would cleaning & de-dinging the ends be sufficient? Or would de-dinging risk making them worse?

                    If I make a new arbor (e.g., a different size) & need to make new spacers, would parting-off on the lathe ensure parallelism of the faces?
                    I would think not. Factory spacers are ground. I've never been able to part with near that surface finish and flatness, maybe you can.
                    21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
                    1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Parting is never that good. Parting, then facing will probably get you there.
                      Kansas City area

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bob Engelhardt View Post

                        I want to check my spacers, but I don't have a surface plate. Is there any other way to check them that would be good enough?

                        If I assume (!) that they were originally - from the factory - square, would cleaning & de-dinging the ends be sufficient? Or would de-dinging risk making them worse?

                        If I make a new arbor (e.g., a different size) & need to make new spacers, would parting-off on the lathe ensure parallelism of the faces?
                        It is written “brush your bare hand” etc, etc.

                        A plate with wet/dry paper will wear you out before much damage could result. If you have one shiny spot after a few strokes it’s bad. If it’s even you’re done on that one. This assumes it was right to begin with which it most likely was.

                        It’s not rocket surgery, just good shop practice.

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