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Water for Coolant - What I Bought Today

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Bented View Post

    The water evaporates, coolant is used to remove heat from the cutting zone by adding heat to the water which changes state from liquid to gas.
    Spot on. Even if you were to use something like oil or transmission fluid some is burned up and lost due to heat.
    *** I always wanted a welding stinger that looked like the north end of a south bound chicken. Often my welds look like somebody pointed the wrong end of a chicken at the joint and squeezed until something came out. Might as well look the part.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Bob La Londe View Post

      Spot on. Even if you were to use something like oil or transmission fluid some is burned up and lost due to heat.
      And don't forget the quantity lost out the chip pan. Chips can hold a tremendous amount of liquid in their little cracks and crevasses.

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      • #18
        There is certainly some carry out. More when I realize the chip screens are plugged up and I need to get them cleaned out while the machine is running. Also, there is always (with my machines and enclosures anyway) some spray that gets away.
        *** I always wanted a welding stinger that looked like the north end of a south bound chicken. Often my welds look like somebody pointed the wrong end of a chicken at the joint and squeezed until something came out. Might as well look the part.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by tom_d View Post

          And don't forget the quantity lost out the chip pan. Chips can hold a tremendous amount of liquid in their little cracks and crevasses.
          One of the reasons that Screw Machine shops had chip wringers. To get back the cutting oil coating all the chips.

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          • #20
            Coolant removes heat using water mostly, cutting oils add lubricity and reduce galling between the tool and work material but are not a very good as a coolant.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Bented View Post

              The water evaporates, coolant is used to remove heat from the cutting zone by adding heat to the water which changes state from liquid to gas.
              Yes, Im aware of that... I just can't imagine going through that much... I used to top off the saws at work with about 3 gals a week. More in the winter. On the lathe I just use sulfurized oil and eat the loss.
              25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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              • #22
                The contrast between the chuck and the collet is also an issue..... The chuck flings it all over the inside of the enclosure, giving it lots more surface to evaporate from even if not that heated up. Some of it may not make its way back before the water content is gone.
                3313 5160 4357 4344 3174 9120

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Bob La Londe View Post

                  Four small CNC Mills in my main 14 x 23 machine room. One larger (2ton) CNC knee mill in the main shop. One bandsaw I run with coolant. One 10x54 manual Mill and one 14x40 lathe setup for coolant but not currently running coolant. On a good day I'll have 3 CNCs running continuously and one intermittently while I jump between the saw and the lathe or manual Mill. Most days I am frantically trying to finish CAD/CAM to get things going.

                  All coolant is flood. Two nozzles on all CNCs.

                  It can get steamy in the machine room.

                  Ambient humidity in the area is typically very very low 11 months out of the year.
                  Yeah that'll do it. You are probably doing a lot more machining per day than the rest of us a home. I try not to use coolant much on the manual machines as it takes so long to clean them and keep them from rusting. I will probably transition to oils in the future when I have a bit more wealth.
                  21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
                  1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

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                  • #24
                    Just so you guys know. I don't have any real rust issues with SC520 and distilled water. I get some very minor staining between vises and the table, but not much more than I see with machines that have never had coolant on them. I do wipe the table with way oil before bolting down a vise.

                    A long time ago I actually ran flood transmission fluid on a machine. (My little Taig) It worked great, but it burned up over time and my shop always smelled like a 40 year old transmission shop. Over the course of a day the fluid would get pretty warm. Maybe not quite uncomfortable warm, but close. I got great looking shiny parts. As I got more serious and transitioned to being more pro and less hobby guy I realized the trany fluid just cost to much. Generic hydraulic oil worked just as well. I always had clean shiny parts and it did a great job of blasting/floating chips out of the cuts.

                    When I got my Hurco going and got my first bigger bed mill I did some math, asked some questions and determined that water soluble coolant would cost me less money per hour than trany fluid if it worked ok. I did try mist, but sorry. It doesn't touch flood for removing chips and preventing chip welding. At the time I still felt of myself as a hobbyist trying on big boy shoes so I went with what most of the hobbyists used at the time. Kool Mist 77. For mist it was not great, but it worked. I asked them directly if it was good for flood coolant and they said absolutely definitely yes. I don't recall what percentage they said, but I mixed it up exactly per their description and plugged in a pump. I noticed all my parts that took more than a couple hours to machine were coming out yellow, and those that took longer came out brown. Not a hint of color. Full on yellow to brown. I asked them and they pulled the typical you don't know what you are doing crap companies do and said it was my water, so I cleaned and dried the machine and bought 20 gallons of distilled water at the grocery store. The results were the same. Yellow to brown parts. I asked Kool Mist a couple more times, and they just refused to respond once they realized they couldn't play me. "In my opinion" their product is crap. It might be ok for short cycle parts, but I was constantly CNCing parts that took hours to machine. I was constantly getting brown parts. No it didn't wash off either. I asked around and Lloyd Sponenburgh (avid CamBam users and former regular in RCM) said he's used SC520 for years with none of the issues I described. He runs a professional fireworks and fireworks associated hardware manufacturing company in Florida. He also makes some fireworks manufacturing machines. Anyway, he's an experienced machinist and inspite of bumping heads a few times I respect him. I decided to give it a try. The stuff works perfectly. Parts come out bright and shiny, and it rinse clean with water if I clean parts right away. Even if I leave them set they clean up pretty easy. The thing is I got distilled water in my head and never stopped using it. For a few years I would go to the grocery store and buy them out periodically. Then I bought a distiller and just used it. The new distiller is supposed to arrive the day after tomorrow.

                    For anybody who missed it:

                    1. I like SC520 from Master Chemical.
                    2. In my opinion Kool Mist 77 is garbage.

                    *** I always wanted a welding stinger that looked like the north end of a south bound chicken. Often my welds look like somebody pointed the wrong end of a chicken at the joint and squeezed until something came out. Might as well look the part.

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                    • #25
                      Personally I’d try one machine on your tap water and see what happens.

                      I use plain old well water but it’s on occasional use manual machines and all I really care about is sump life and rust prevention.

                      Blows my mind the quantity you go through.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post

                        Yes, Im aware of that... I just can't imagine going through that much... I used to top off the saws at work with about 3 gals a week. More in the winter. On the lathe I just use sulfurized oil and eat the loss.
                        Try it, spin a 3 jaw scroll chuck at 2000 rpms 6 hours per day with water based coolant pouring on it.
                        I go through 2-3 gallons per day 5 days per week

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Bented View Post

                          Try it, spin a 3 jaw scroll chuck at 2000 rpms 6 hours per day with water based coolant pouring on it.
                          I go through 2-3 gallons per day 5 days per week
                          Oh, I don't doubt you. Have ran plenty of VF-2s like that.... wasn't responsible for their upkeep tho. The bandsaw and radial drill was my baby. The radial drill would go thru 50 gals in a day. Through the bit x 6" deep. That wasn't home shop though. I sure as hell wasn't paying those bills.... that particular outfit was getting $250k per piece, one piece per day. Avg work piece was ~ 60 tons.
                          nickel-city-fab
                          Senior Member
                          Last edited by nickel-city-fab; 04-21-2021, 11:09 PM.
                          25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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