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  • #16
    Originally posted by garyhlucas View Post
    The Tesla battery burning produces far less energy than a car tank full of gasoline. However water is simply the wrong thing to use on a lithium fire as it actually accelerates it. CO2 or dry chemical would likely have snuffed it out in seconds. And then there are people that want tanks of liquid hydrogen on board cars!
    You might want to look for actual numbers on li-ion batter fire. Some time ago I posted links here: the Tesla battery fire releases more energy than largest gasoline tank in any passenger vehicle.

    edit:
    https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/sites/jrcsh...-batteries.pdf
    Last edited by MattiJ; 04-21-2021, 01:25 AM.
    Location: Helsinki, Finland, Europe

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    • #17
      Originally posted by dalee100 View Post

      Evidently,according to the blackbox data, the driver assist was off and not being used. Nor could it have been used because there were no lane markings, which the Tesla's autopilot needs to work by, on that particular road. So it should have been under human control. With cars recording operating conditions and driver inputs, it gets a whole lot harder to blame the technology for operator shortcomings. This is much less about "evil machines" killing people and a lot more about people operating machinery stupidly. And I say this as someone who is not a big fan of Tesla.
      All of the reports I have seen online have led me to think that somebody is lying like crazy. The "autopilot" cannot function without a driver in the seat, nor without lane markings. And no, it doesn't take that long to put out a battery fire, nor did it take that long. They had the bulk of it out in 15 minutes. I think, but cannot prove, that it may have been a suicide pact, or a murder-suicide. I'm sure the authorities are not being completely up-front about their findings, and I am equally sure that Tesla is not being completely up-front either.

      Meanwhile I will stick with my very old 100-yr old and proven tech. Fortunately my new job (as of last year) does not require me to drive so much. Previously I was averaging 80 miles/128 km per day. Not any more. Now is more like 2 miles/3km per day.
      25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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      • #18
        so much for taking the human equation out of the mix... too many things today are being manipulated for convenience or "safety" and personal responsibility is being removed. Heck Billy Bob, lets smoke this joint and kick back in the back seat... Jim

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        • #19
          Originally posted by MattiJ View Post

          You might want to look for actual numbers on li-ion batter fire. Some time ago I posted links here: the Tesla battery fire releases more energy than largest gasoline tank in any passenger vehicle.

          edit:
          https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/sites/jrcsh...-batteries.pdf
          Perhaps we should rethink the ICE and use lithium instead of gasoline

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          • #20
            Originally posted by jmm03 View Post
            so much for taking the human equation out of the mix... too many things today are being manipulated for convenience or "safety" and personal responsibility is being removed. Heck Billy Bob, lets smoke this joint and kick back in the back seat... Jim
            In at least some of the crashes of Teslas, the most important factor seems to have been ultimately over-hype of the "driver assist". To be fair, TESLA has never claimed it is a full driverless system (they ARE working on one, and have the system , such as it is, available as an option, which was not on the Texas car). But several users seem to have gotten the idea that it IS, and have let it do it's thing, with bad results.

            The crash into the semi some years ago was one of those. That was an early version of driver assist, and was actually not in any way "driverless" nor meant to be. But that driver apparently was watching a movie instead of actually driving, and paid the price of ignorance.
            2730

            Keep eye on ball.
            Hashim Khan


            It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by jmm03 View Post
              so much for taking the human equation out of the mix... too many things today are being manipulated for convenience or "safety" and personal responsibility is being removed. Heck Billy Bob, lets smoke this joint and kick back in the back seat... Jim
              X 2, people do not realize what a slippery slope it is and how it's dumbing down our society,,, they think it's a sign of intelligence when it's the exact opposite,,,

              with my latest car I did a 180 --- it's so interactive and keeps me totally engaged in driving it, im reading both charge and assist scales along with current MPG ratings and battery storage level along with having a 5 speed manual to match things up and also milk the most out of stopping and recharging - then taking off using the least throttle but most assist to reclaim the energies iv just stopped with,
              Of coarse you learn real quick that all above mentioned is "only at safe convenience" and actually driving the car is #1 priority, but what you find out real quick too is due to being engaged in related functions it reminds you of what your doing in the first place - driving the car... Im the first and last say - im the real time programmer for every single situation in front of me - in back and off to the sides in all different types of weather/temps/traffic and then some...
              I cannot believe for the life of me why anyone would want to give all this up and leave it to someone who's not even in your vehicle and wrote a program years ago thinking they know all the variables that you are about to encounter, what's more actually remove such an important task so they can then fiddle more with their mindless celly or texting their dribble to other mindless twits... have at it people - if your one of them you are doomed....

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              • #22
                I'm sure that a huge ammount of research is being done to make electric vehicles safer and also into the consequences of the unavoidable crashes and breakdowns. I am too old to actually witness the new world which will be here in the next 30 years. A child born tomorrow will only be 30 when that day dawns.
                Last edited by old mart; 04-21-2021, 12:36 PM.

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                • #23
                  somehow "driver assist" equates to aircraft type autopilot for some, and the advent of youtube has enabled people to video all sorts of idiotic behavior with varying consequences. In addition to ludicrous mode on the tesla there probably should be a darwin mode... Jim

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post

                    X 2, people do not realize what a slippery slope it is and how it's dumbing down our society,,, they think it's a sign of intelligence when it's the exact opposite,,,

                    .........
                    Nothing new.

                    Even in the middle ages, there were specialized folks who would hunt, or farm, and many, even most, in a larger town would have been hopeless at doing either of those. They bought their meat, and milled flour, perhaps even bread, so they did not have to (or know how to) bake.

                    In fact, that goes back probably 2500 years, and likely farther, but we know less about it from earlier times.

                    It's a shift in the type of knowledge needed by most. Back in the middle ages, a baker might not farm and did not mill flour, a miller might not farm, a carpenter did none of the other things, etc. But what they DID do was necessary and valued by society, and needed more or less full time attention.

                    Those who took cabs to get places did not drive in the 1800s, and so it goes.

                    Every era had it's same version of "THEY are dumbing down society, and it s a crime!".

                    The "THEY" and the specific skill under discussion have changed over time. The complaint has not.
                    2730

                    Keep eye on ball.
                    Hashim Khan


                    It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

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                    • #25
                      With the battery cells could they not put a "switch" like a diode in between each cell to help prevent a runaway situation? JR
                      My old yahoo group. Bridgeport Mill Group

                      https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...port_mill/info

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

                        Nothing new.

                        .
                        Total BS and I might add severe "detachment from reality" --- show me any time in history when "almost" or the majority of the masses were able to do almost nothing and not only survive but actually "thrive" although be it in a sloth like form,,,

                        unsustainable means just that and the only way were getting it done is with the burning of fuels and automation, this is way beyond the simple "plow horse" JT, and even they were at least some kind of a "chore" to maintain/feed/care for when ill and keep out of harms way - till you have a bad crop and have to eat them....

                        Nothing new? ugh yeah ok

                        Fact is - is yeah we did have to bust a hump to get where were at, and that means most everyone or we simply would not be here for it would have collapsed a long time ago, and in fact has many many times due to negligence that was just a fraction of what's going on today--- there's a warning in that last sentence as in "it's a coming" and it's going to be on a global scale and TOTALLY NEW when you consider the billions involved....

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                        • #27
                          Someday cars and motorcycles as we know them today will be looked at kinda how we look at horses today. An old-timey anachronism, for enthusiasts only. I expect to see property with closed roads where you can trailer your old car to drive it yourself, similar to horse-riding places today. If you drove yourself on the public road of the future the other travelers will look at you, as today you look at someone riding their horse along the road.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by gmax137 View Post
                            Someday cars and motorcycles as we know them today will be looked at kinda how we look at horses today. An old-timey anachronism, for enthusiasts only. I expect to see property with closed roads where you can trailer your old car to drive it yourself, similar to horse-riding places today. If you drove yourself on the public road of the future the other travelers will look at you, as today you look at someone riding their horse along the road.
                            Thank you.

                            Yeah, the squiggly halogen bulbs were a short, intermediate advancement--with obvious issues. But guess what?? LED's followed and resolved all that. Would I have preferred the world went from incandescent to LED's directly? Yes. But only what is possible is possible. (for all the reasons repliers are about to hit me for)
                            Last edited by MyrtleLake; 04-21-2021, 02:58 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by MyrtleLake View Post

                              Thank you.

                              Yeah, the squiggly halogen bulbs were a short, intermediate advancement--with obvious issues. But guess what?? LED's followed and resolved all that. Would I have preferred the world went from incandescent to LED's directly? Yes. But only what is possible is possible. (for all the reasons repliers are about to hit me for)
                              I hope you meant "compact florescent" not Tungsten Halogen bulbs. Not a damn thing wrong with Halogen bulbs. Better color rendition than the best of the LEDs.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post

                                Total BS and I might add severe "detachment from reality" --- ......
                                Well, aren't YOU the "nice guy on the block"?

                                Thank you for the lesson given from your life-long study of the history of technology, and your many papers presented, confirmation through personal excavations in the near East, europe, etc, etc.

                                Oh, wait, this guy "AKB" is NOT a world expert on the subject, yet he labels the statements as "total BS", and "detached from reality". I think we can safely label HIM "detached from reality" and assume, no doubt correctly, that he has not a clue what the hell he is talking about.

                                AKB, you are just wrong, and a few hours of study should prove it to you............ well, prove it to others, not to "you".

                                It seems that you are asserting that the tenement dwellers in ancient Rome were able to master all the tasks of their time. I put it to you that if they were, they would not have been where they were..... any more than the average apartment dweller in NYC is skilled in hunting, farming, driving a team of mules, etc (or even hitching them to the wagon, or doing a "diamond hitch" to attach sacks to a pack saddle).

                                Sorry to break it to you, but the specialization has been going on for thousands of years, whether you think so or not. A bit of study of history on your part would show that.

                                2730

                                Keep eye on ball.
                                Hashim Khan


                                It's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there.

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