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  • BCRider
    replied
    I did a review a while back on my own Accusize tool post purchase off Amazon.ca. It's a very nice setup and I was highly impressed at the finish and fit of the parts. The ONLY slight minus was the fit of the set screws in the holders. But all the other nicely done fits and finishes more than made up for it to my mind. And the AXA size kit should do you just fine for a CX701.

    For your CX701 size lathe which you're going to be patient for you'll find that you're just fine with 3/8 size HSS blanks for a lot of purposes. And if you get lured in by carbide insert tooling the AXA size holders will accept 12mm shank tooling too.

    And here's a bit of tooling you will want in short order. It's a drawing for the holder for my dial gauge for zeroing in work in the four jaw chuck I made a while back. One of the "joys" of being a home shop guy is that you will want to ease the financial pain of all the stuff you MUST buy through making some of the other items which you can. it's a great skill builder and it gets you items that would normally cost a lot or which in many cases are the pure domain of the HSM'er. And near as I can tell this sort of thing is one of those items.

    This bar fits in an AXA holder and as shown fits and holds all the dial gauges I've got on hand. And for internal bore centering it will hold a dial test indicator (the ones with a little "finger") in the other end when used with the appropriate dovetailed pin fitting.

    I thought about making clever and fine looking dedicated tool holders like some online YT machinists have done (Mr Pete for one) but this simple bar holder which can be flipped end for end to use in a wider variety of manners won out for me.

    To be fair I did use a reamer for the hole for the dial gauge but if you drill one size under than "ream" it with the proper size it should work out fine.

    Speaking of which.... We know you're after a lathe. But what other tools for metal working do you have. It'll be a pretty lonely shop if ALL you have is a lathe, a hacksaw and a couple of files...

    Click image for larger version

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  • Tundra Twin Track
    replied
    Originally posted by Bds60 View Post
    You’re probably right, just first time machine anxiety. One last couple questions for you if you wouldn’t mind, before I start spending money.

    I’m going to pick up the knock off aloris axa quick change post and some tool holders. What size of HSS blanks should I get 3/8” or 1/2” ,I see the diameter on the tool holder is 1/2”.
    If your buying in Canada check out Accusize tool posts.

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  • Bds60
    replied
    You’re probably right, just first time machine anxiety. One last couple questions for you if you wouldn’t mind, before I start spending money.

    I’m going to pick up the knock off aloris axa quick change post and some tool holders. What size of HSS blanks should I get 3/8” or 1/2” ,I see the diameter on the tool holder is 1/2”.

    Leave a comment:


  • BCRider
    replied
    CX709.... I wouldn't.. You'd be giving up a lot more than a few inches of bed length and work room. There's a lot less features in the lead screw gearing and you lose the separate feed rod for longitudinal fed cuts.

    If you were looking to build model engines? Then sure. But I sort of got the idea from your 2 x 18 inch option you mentioned that you might be doing that sort of size on a somewhat regular basis.

    But the real answer has to come from YOU. Be honest with yourself over the sort of parts you would expect to be able to handle. If you're playing with engines and vintage or custom cars then you're already making a pretty sizeable compromise by picking the 701 over the 12x36 CX707. But perhaps I misread what you are intending to use it for. If so you need to figure on a scope of size to suit the sort of items you want to make.

    Don't let a few months lead you by the nose. If you pick the right lathe you won't ever need to "upgrade" at all for the rest of your life. Pick the wrong one and you'll hate it and lose financially in the end by selling a new machine on the used market and on accessories and tooling that don't fit the next bigger machine.

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  • Bds60
    replied
    Yeah thats true, not too economical picking up from down south. Well busy bee got back to me, and apparently they may have 701s back in stock within a couple of months here in Calgary. However they do have a CX709 in stock right now. I’d be giving up 4” of bed length, and going to gear head. BC Rider, do you think it would be wise of me to pick up the 709?

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  • BCRider
    replied
    Originally posted by metalmagpie View Post
    Did you consider Precision Matthews? They do ship to Canada ..
    With our current lousy exchange rate and the recent price increase you folks in the US got hit with due to the import tariff on Chinese imports price wise there is not much to save for importing from PM. And with brokerage fees and shipping quite possibly it ends up as more. Depends on the item but it's a close thing either way at present.

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  • The Artful Bodger
    replied
    Originally posted by BCRider View Post

    Someone else here did a table made from concrete.

    .
    I made a new topic with one picture. Maybe I can find a picture from a more informative angle.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bds60
    replied
    Originally posted by metalmagpie View Post
    Did you consider Precision Matthews? They do ship to Canada ..
    I didn’t inquire on PM, from what I’ve read they will ship to Canada. However they seem to have a supply issue as well. I’m assuming all of this has to do with the Suez Canal incident.

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  • metalmagpie
    replied
    Did you consider Precision Matthews? They do ship to Canada ..

    Leave a comment:


  • mickeyf
    replied
    But they want $350 for the "tin box" stand.
    Yup. Agree with you on this. If no or little extra cost I'd start with the tin box. But at that much extra, yeah. Ultimately it's matter of getting started as soon as possible, or adding yet another (educational, interesting, worthwhile, but time consuming) project, and how cost sensitive your undertakings are.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Metal Butcher
    replied
    readily
    Originally posted by Bds60 View Post
    Wow, a lot of engineering involved in the construction of a suitable lathe base. Perfect, it gives me time because it appears there is a back order of the CX701s in Alberta. Plenty of time to get the shop setup now. The Metal Butcher, is the above polar moment calculation something I could find in the Machinery Handbook? If not can you recommend any books that would assist in my journey. Material Science is a very interesting topic and I would like to gain as much knowledge as possible.
    Most likely. I'll be honest, I haven't read through the entire Machinery's Handbook. I generally just trust that what I need is in there and it usually is. There is multiple masters degrees worth of info in there if you understood it all. It's also pretty concise yet detailed enough to get the job done. What a great book. I don't own one, but an engineers black book may have that info as well.

    For that sort of info, you will want a "Mechanics of Materials" type book. Lots of info on materials, but also lots on force, moment, and inertia type things. My school textbook was Mechanics of Materials 8th E by Hibbler.

    For a Material Science book, I had De Garmo's Materials and Processes. It's more applicable to grain structure and things like that and how materials are made and formed. Less useful for you, but interesting, and technically what you would be more likely to get when you ask for a "Material Science" book.

    My favorite overall textbook was for my dynamics of machines class. Fundamentals of Machine Component Design, 6th Edition by Juvinall. It was an upper level book, so it assumed you knew a lot already, but it was just an excellent, no-nonsense book. Very useful for the homeshop engineer with a lot of practical design engineering on fasteners, power screws, bearings, plain bearings, shaft sizing, etc. The problems are pretty real world as well, whereas some of the earlier books are more abstract as a student doesn't quite know enough yet for an all-encompassing problem.

    Now, I can't recommend buying new textbooks. They are crazy expensive and not as info dense as some of the more dedicated shop books. Buuut, the info in them is often the same as in the 1st or 2nd editions which go used for $10-20. I had problems in one of my textbooks that were identical to the ones in the 1973 edition I borrowed from the library. In addition, many an "unsavory" student will tell you that all of these and many other textbooks can be readily obtained in PDF form on the internet, with just a quick google search. Or so I'm told.

    Hopefully some of the older members here who have had more time to build their bookshelves can tell you about some less-student oriented engineering books.

    Leave a comment:


  • BCRider
    replied
    Mickey, normally I'd agree with that idea. But they want $350 for the "tin box" stand. So it suggests that something at least as effective but a whole lot cheaper could be made up. Granted my focus on a heavy base or "floating beam" as part of it might be overkill for the novice. But if he's going to go to the effort anyway....

    Like you I managed on the accuracy side of things when I had the " cookie tin bases". 15 to 18 years of just bulling on anyway taught me a few tricks.

    It was when doing things like parting off that the biggest change became noticeable. On the tin boxes I often had to go into back gear and use extra care to avoid a nasty chatter and high risk of breaking off the tool. Sitting on the base shown above I have yet to need to go into back gear even on 2" stock cutting down into a bored hole like I did a while back. And I don't have to baby this sort of parting cut either. With the new base I've got a far wider range of acceptable feed rates where on the tin boxes I was limited to very specific rates to get around the chatter.

    The same issue also showed up if trying to do heavy roughing cuts. With the new setup I can easily rough off double the width and with a faster feed I could on the tin box setup. In fact with my present setup I'm not sure if I could force it to chatter before the motor stalled. This assumes reasonable overhang for the stock of course.

    The only time I get any chatter these days is when I use a fairly large form tool. But then it's limited to the tool itself or the part that flexes and chatters. I don't feel the vibration through the controls of the lathe like I got with the parting or roughing cuts when on the box bases.

    If any of that sounds at all familiar to you maybe it's not that you are impatient but that the lathe isn't being allowed to perform like it is able. When I first got my lathe back up and running and was trying this and that I found myself literally giggling like a schoolkid at how it could suddenly do things easily which were either frustratingly noisy or simply not doable before.

    I know I prattle on frequently over this with what could easily be called fanatical zeal. But it really was that massive a change. So I hope you and the others can cut me a bit of slack if I keep stepping up onto my soap box...

    TMB, that's quite the interesting chart. I haven't seen such a thing before.

    It's not only the added stiffness though. Sure, the big tube or even adding a stout piece of flat plate helps with the rigidity. But I feel that a big part of this is also the nature of the beam to damp any vibration. And steel by itself is quite "ringy" That would be where the sand filler comes into the picture. Or the use of concrete which is naturally more like cast iron at damping vibration.

    One fellow back at the time I posted about my block base did a base of his own with single stacked block risers and a piece of I believe it was 1.5 or 2" granite plate left over from some kitchen counter deal. His lathe is one of the smaller bench top models. He reported back with results very much along the line of mine. And stone like this isn't far off cast iron again for damping. And of course it is very stiff.

    Last edited by BCRider; 05-06-2021, 03:00 PM.

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  • Bds60
    replied
    Wow, a lot of engineering involved in the construction of a suitable lathe base. Perfect, it gives me time because it appears there is a back order of the CX701s in Alberta. Plenty of time to get the shop setup now. The Metal Butcher, is the above polar moment calculation something I could find in the Machinery Handbook? If not can you recommend any books that would assist in my journey. Material Science is a very interesting topic and I would like to gain as much knowledge as possible.

    Leave a comment:


  • mickeyf
    replied
    I'd suggest you maybe just get the (relatively flimsy, perhaps) stand the lathe sells with, start using the lathe that much sooner, and worry about an ideally engineered stand when you decide the one you are using is actually causing problems.

    I have a 12x36 Chinese lathe that is so generic it doesn't even have a model number, it just says "People Republic of China". It came on a stand made of what is essentially heavy sheet metal, and I have yet to have any problem getting anything as accurately machined as I need to*. Less than 1 thou when required, no problem.

    (I also have a 14x40 Taiwanese lathe that I am rebuilding. It is on a frame of welded 3x3 square tubing with a 5/16 inch wall, but that's because it came to me with no stand and I had all this free steel handy.)

    *I lied. I have problems sometimes. But they are due to me being impatient, clumsy, etc., not any problem with the machine or the stability of the stand.
    Last edited by mickeyf; 05-06-2021, 11:59 AM.

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  • The Metal Butcher
    replied
    You've opened a can of worms my friend....

    From an engineering POV, you want something with a large polar (torsional) moment of inertia. To me that is a big piece of rectangular or round tubing with flats welded on. Personally I doubt the benefit, but I haven't tried so... BCRider and folks says it makes a difference, so I'll have to take their word. But something thin like flat plate, even 1/2" or 1" thick is fairly negligible. Edit: not as true as I thought. See below. Calculate for yourself here:

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    For example. A 10x1/2" section of steel plate would have a polar moment of 41.77 in^4
    The 10x10 rectangular tube mentioned by BCRider: 232.5 in^4
    And a 10x0.375 round tube: 139.2 in^4

    I must say I'm a bit surprised. My gut feeling was wrong and the plate is more effective as expected. The polar modulus (a new thing for me), which is basically the polar moment of inertia when compared to it's radius is highest for a circular shape, which I expected. So that is the most material efficient, but far from the easiest.

    Someday I'd like bolt a small lathe to an immovable object like the bed of my Daewoo and test the difference. That would be fun.
    Last edited by The Metal Butcher; 05-06-2021, 03:54 PM.

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