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Project: Building the MLA-18 Filing Machine

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  • #31
    When I first saw the thread title I thought filling machine not filing machine, my mistake.
    I make a fair number of parts for a customer that manufactures filling machines (-:

    We do have a largish DoAll vertical bandsaw that will run band files, same principal I suspect. Have not seen this machine run in 10 years.
    Out with the old and in with the new, the last 2 machines to go in the scrap were Cincinnati horizontal mills.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Bented View Post
      When I first saw the thread title I thought filling machine not filing machine, my mistake.
      I make a fair number of parts for a customer that manufactures filling machines (-:

      We do have a largish DoAll vertical bandsaw that will run band files, same principal I suspect. Have not seen this machine run in 10 years.
      Out with the old and in with the new, the last 2 machines to go in the scrap were Cincinnati horizontal mills.
      Similar principle, this one just reciprocates the files up and down like a jigsaw. Clock makers and gun smiths etc use them, good for delicate stuff.
      Pretty sure you're in a commercial shop, so it makes sense to toss what you can't reasonable fix or use.
      My last employer was using machines that were built in the 1910's all the way up to now, I had the joy of maintaining that mix.
      25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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      • #33
        OK, I finally survived that boring job, and learned a bunch along the way.
        This was one of the more difficult jobs I've done, and I wanted to document a few "tricks" I did to make it easier for others in the future.
        Maybe Andy will see fit to include them in his "hints" in the instructions?
        First photo is the type of boring bar that was easiest to use, it's completely shop made:

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        The set screw for the tool bit is in the end of the bar. The tool bit is just 1/4" (6mm) HSS, the bar is 5/8 (16mm) with 8" (200mm) length.
        Next photo is how I set the cut depth. It actually is very controllable and I hit my number exactly:

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        I had first took a trial cut for a short distance and used that to tell me how far to move the tool bit. It worked very well.
        Once again the indicator is mounted in the Mighty-Magnet on the tool post.
        This next photo shows how I got the shafts to intersect with each other, close enough:
        The threaded rod is screwed into the South Bend dovetail plug, in place of the top slide:

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        Notice the bushings setting on the top slide. Those were very important to the setup.
        I turned a set of bushes to hold the part concentric with the threaded rod and not allow any play.
        This greatly enhanced rigidity, and repeatability:

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        Since this bore is for the drive shaft bushing, I wanted it to be as true and square as possible with respect to the tool shaft.
        I ended up using the casting line to get square in the horizontal plane mentioned earlier,
        since I noticed that it went almost exactly through the center of the tool shaft bore.

        Speeds and feeds were critical: the bore is 1-1/4 (1.250 or say 32mm) by 3" (75mm) long. Using a sharp carbide insert with my "normal" feed didn't work, there was too much tool pressure and "push-off" relative to the rigidity of the setup. So my old HSS bar shown above saved the day, and I turned the feed down as low as my machine will go: .0015 per rev or .04mm. RPM was also slowed way down to 100 RPM. There was no flex or "push-off" in this way, no need for a "spring" pass, and finish is beautiful. My bore is .001 over, that is OK. The bronze insert is supplied .030 over so there's plenty to work with. Both inserts for the tool shaft and drive shaft will be loctited in.
        Last edited by nickel-city-fab; 05-20-2021, 12:27 PM. Reason: Caps, Readability breaks
        25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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        • #34
          awesome work and great to see the "how"

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          • #35
            Originally posted by mattthemuppet View Post
            awesome work and great to see the "how"
            I hope you plan on trying some of these MLA kits someday! There are more kits that I want to do, but I have to finish this first.
            25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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            • #36
              maybe one day, though the list of projects is long and never seems to get shorter I do plan one day to make a T-slot full length cross slide for my heavy 9, I have a piece of steel just the right size for it, but that's a long way down the list too!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Tim Clarke View Post
                I've thought of several more of Andy's kits... I met Andy at NAMES, I think it was 2016. I bought his T Slot cross slide and Radius tool for my 9" south Bend. Also built the quick change toolpost that was published in HSM. Andy is a first class guy!
                +1
                Andy is a Awesome Hobby vendor
                Rich
                Green Bay, WI

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                • #38
                  Continuing on with the body of the die filer, I chucked it by the housing of the input shaft. I used a simple ruler to center the housing by measuring from the chuck jaws to the chuck body. The rear face (where the big hole is) needs to be faced off and counter bored. I made some design changes to be explained after the pics:

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                  Action shot: back gears (again!) at 50 RPM.

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                  Here is the counter bore for the back cover. This is where I made a design change. The drawings call for a 3-1/8" (3.125 or say 80mm) diameter with 3/8 (.375 or 10mm) deep. There is a bolt circle that goes into this counter bore step. Other builders have had difficulty with "not enough material" in this area due to core shift and close tolerances, and some of their bolt holes broke through the casting wall axially. I did some preliminary measurement and decided I had enough material to significantly widen the counter bore and matching cover diameter, thus avoiding the problem. So I made the counter bore 3-5/16 (3.312, say 84mm) with the cover a few thou smaller. I'll have to come up with a new bolt circle diameter, but there's plenty of material to work with now. No danger of breaking through into the wrong part of the casting.

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                  FINALLY I was able to take the body casting out of the chuck and set up to turn the cover. I borrowed a trick from ClickSpring and mounted the raw casting on the end of a 2-inch (50mm) bar with super glue. The trick with this, is to wait a while for the glue to set. After waiting half an hour, I gently warmed up the whole thing with a heat gun on the low setting wile spinning in the chuck and holding it all together with the live center. The casting draft was turned off .010 (0,25mm) at a time until it all cleaned up to fit into the previous counter bore. The casting is about 7/8 (.875 or 22mm) thick but the drawing calls for .375 (10mm). I really don't feel like doing that much facing, even with power feeds, so I'll probably go for 5/8 (.625 or 16mm) thick.

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                  Last edited by nickel-city-fab; 05-21-2021, 12:42 PM. Reason: milimeters, not meters
                  25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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                  • #39
                    looks like you're making great progress. Must have been slightly nervewracking to have that casting swinging around, even at 50rpm.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by mattthemuppet View Post
                      looks like you're making great progress. Must have been slightly nervewracking to have that casting swinging around, even at 50rpm.
                      Actually it's not so bad once you get used to it. One BIG thing I learned is, you have to really crank down on everything so it can't move. Tight on the chuck, lock the carriage, tight tool post etc. everything as tight as possible. After that, it gets boring. Also, give it a spin by hand *first*, to make sure you have the right clearance everywhere, with the minimum possible stick out or overhang. There's nothing new about any of that, it's just basic shop practice.
                      25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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                      • #41
                        Finishing up the cover, I made some more changes from the original design to accommodate things. The bolt circle I settled on was 2-7/8 dia (2.875 or 73mm). Again, this is due to the earlier build notes that some builders had not allowed enough room and broke through into the wrong areas of the casting. The plans call for 10-24 screws but I went with 10-32 brass fillister-head screws for a touch of class. The plans call for 8 holes, but I went with 6 holes, using the same setup on my indexing backplate as previously. The cover plate is nearly 5/8" (.625 or 16mm) thick, more than enough meat. So it is countersunk/bored for the screw heads, 5/16 (.312 or 8mm) dia. x .200 or 5mm deep.

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                        I located the center between a pair of holes and used the centering head to scribe a vertical line between them. I blued up the rear of the body casting and used the centering head to scribe the same vertical line with the casting line. I used these lines to align the rear cover with the body:

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                        Used a close-fitting transfer punch to transfer the marks into the register inside the body
                        (shown here for demo purposes, I actually did the job on my lap)

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                        The light transfer punch marks are reinforced with a regular center punch.
                        They will be drilled and tapped for 10-32 on the lathe, again using the tool-post drilling tool.
                        After that is done, I have to face off the end of the input shaft bore.
                        That should be all the machining complete on the body of the tool.
                        After that I'll start on the inner moving parts.

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                        25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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                        • #42
                          Frank Ford built the filing machine kit as well. I believe he has it well documented on his website, should you be looking for ideas.
                          http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/hstpages.html
                          http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/
                          Last edited by reggie_obe; 05-23-2021, 12:14 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by reggie_obe View Post
                            Frank Ford built the filing machine kit as well. I believe he has it well documented on his website, should you be looking for ideas.
                            http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/hstpages.html
                            http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/
                            Thanks, I had no idea! I've read all of Frank's hints and tips over the years, he has an awesome site. I'll have to go back and check it again.
                            25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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                            • #44
                              This is the direct link.
                              http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Pr...iefiler01.html
                              Grantham, New Hampshire

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                              • #45
                                Time for an update. It has taken *way* too long.
                                Real life gets in the way sometimes - had some family visiting over the holiday, and having surgery next week.
                                I left off with the main casting, opting for some real nice brass fillister screws on the rear cover.
                                I had decided to order them over-length and trim them as needed.
                                I started working on the moving parts of the machine, and learned a lot along the way.
                                Mainly, I need to plan the order of operations, it will make things much easier.
                                The first part I did is a dust cap that holds in the felts around the tool shaft.
                                It's basically a large counter-bored washer with 6 bolt holes counter-sunk for 4-40 cap screws.
                                OD is a hair over 1-3/8 (1,375 or 35mm) and ID is 1/2" (,500 or 12mm). Mild steel bar stock. I had first roughed the OD, then drilled the ID and counter-bored it. I then marked out for the bolt circle on 9/16 radius (,562 or 14mm) same as the top of the machine. As closely as possible to match the two, I drilled the 6 holes on that BC for the 4-40 cap screws (say 3mm). Used a #36 drill for clearance, and countersunk half way through the thickness with 3/16 (say 4mm). The overall part thickness is 1/4" (6mm).

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                                Next up was the "hat" which shields the tool from chips, and retains the file on the shaft. This is an interesting piece of turning because of the angles. Again starting with 2" nominal hot-rolled MS, I turned the OD just enough to "clean up" and drilled thru 1/4" (6mm). The business end is the small end, turned to 7/8" (say 22mm). It gets interesting on the other end - that is where you have this angled "skirt". I roughed it as far as possible with the carbide, but it was difficult to get a proper tool angle that way. I finally ground a narrow and long round-nosed tool which gave a wonderful finish and was able to reach into awkward areas. I used the top slide swung around "the other way" at 30 deg. This "skirt" area is 1/16 thick (.060 or 1,5mm) and the same angle is duplicated on the underside. A cross-hole for 10-32 was drilled and tapped to retain the files via clamping pressure:

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                                Note the use of a shop-made ER32 collet holder, clamping the part onto a piece of 1/2" all-thread rod with a 1/4" nut. The ID of the "hat" is bored for 1/2" partway in a blind bore, so the 1/2" tool holder rod has a shoulder to bear against. This setup worked beautifully, making me wish I had tried it this way the first time! *EVERY* part in this update was made twice.... learning process creates scrap.

                                I then started on the crankshaft/scotch yoke parts beginning with the crank disc. This was again started from some 2" (50mm) hot-rolled, with an OD cleanup cut. I drilled the center hole at 31/64 or ,484 and then reamed to ,499. In other words just a thou under the nominal half inch. This will be a press/hammer fit for the driving shaft. The eccentric pin is supposed to be on a 1/2" radius, giving a stroke of one inch (25mm). So I measure the OD, divide by two, and subtract ,500 from that answer.. I set my odd-leg hermaphrodite calipers to that figure and mark my line from the OD. It worked nicely.

                                At this point I was tempted to drill and ream the crank-pin hole but that is a bad idea. Ask me how I know. It is miserable to try and part off through a large hole. So I parted off below the depth of where the hole was going to be, *then* I drilled and reamed the hole. just a thou under 1/4" (,250 or 5mm) thru. Then completed the parting off and cleanup. Total thickness is 1/2" (12mm)

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                                Notice on parting off in a deep thick cut, it works better to make your groove double-wide. Gives the chips a way out and avoids jamming, possibly wrecking your tool. Again, ask me how I know....
                                Last edited by nickel-city-fab; 06-02-2021, 01:07 PM.
                                25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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