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O.T. - Fuel Shutoff and Vacuum Fuel Pump

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  • old mart
    replied
    I used to have a GS500E Suzuki, it had a vacuum operated fuel tap with only on, prime and reserve positions. There was also a long reach screwdriver operated tap on the tank for when the tank was removed from the bike. One morning Ijumped on the bike to go to work and got 1/4 mile before it died. I pushed it home and got my outhe bike out, a Kawasaki GPZ 305 out and still got to work on time, one small advantage of a 26 mile commute. Of course, I had the fuel turned off at the tank and had forgotten about it.

    Isn't ethanol produced by farmers who don't want to grow food?

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  • I make chips
    replied
    Originally posted by Edwin Dirnbeck View Post
    Why do we have to have ethanol in our gasoline? Edwin Dirnbeck
    It was billed as a method to offset short supply of petroleum twenty years ago. Then touted as the cure all for emissions. (FALSE)
    Today It's big money business that simply lines the pockets of politicians and big CEO's. Yes it really is as simple as that.
    It has ZERO benefits as a motor fuel.

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  • Willy
    replied
    In a nutshell it has been added to gasoline to help raise it's octane level as well as to oxygenate the gasoline, this helps it burn more cleanly which in turn reduces air pollution.
    A lot more science and politics involved than any one single additive that I can think of, don't get me going.

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  • Edwin Dirnbeck
    replied
    Why do we have to have ethanol in our gasoline? Edwin Dirnbeck

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  • eKretz
    replied
    That is a good idea, as long as they will fit. Some things like chainsaws it would be difficult to find anywhere a valve would fit. In those cases you are better off to just dump out the gas and run the engine until it stalls.

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  • Fasttrack
    replied
    Originally posted by eKretz View Post
    If there's no fuel valve, pinch the fuel line and run the engine until it stalls and leave it pinched until next use or it will just refill the bowl if one is present.
    I suggest cutting the line and installing a valve. If you leave the line pinched for a long period of time, it might not "un-pinch" when the time comes. And if the hose is old to start with, it may break when the temperature changes and leak gasoline all over the place. Had that happen to me once... guess I should just be glad nothing exploded!

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  • eKretz
    replied
    Yes, always use stabilizer. It helps but doesn't completely stop the issues. For engines where you might not run them for most of a year or more I recommend stabilizer *and* draining the float bowl(s) if possible. If that's not possible, shut off the fuel valve and run the engine until it stalls out. If there's no fuel valve, pinch the fuel line and run the engine until it stalls and leave it pinched until next use or it will just refill the bowl if one is present. The fuel sitting in the carb long term is problematic no matter the additives. Engines that run regularly generally won't have the same problems.

    And again, this may be at least somewhat climate dependent. I am in NW Indiana.
    Last edited by eKretz; 05-19-2021, 05:51 PM.

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  • Joel
    replied
    From my new mower manual:

    Click image for larger version

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  • Joel
    replied
    Well, the ethanol issue has come up again and again, so it is good to see a credible consensus forming.
    So - we have 3+ people who have had categorical success (even in a northern climate) by doing nothing other than using Sta-bil 100% of the time.
    I use 'Sta-bil Storage', which is the red stuff. The only thing it says on the bottle regarding ethanol is "Effective in all gasoline & ethanol blended fuels, including E-10 through E-85". I have always used the minimum recommended amount (2oz/5gal).

    More data/experience would be good, so keep it coming.

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  • Willy
    replied
    Originally posted by CarlByrns View Post
    At work, we recommend both Sta-Bil and Startron fuel additives for ethanol mix fuel. Our customers who use these products don't have fuel system issues. We're talking commercial air cooled carbureted engines that would be to expensive to fuel with ethanol-free premium gas.
    Yes the Sta-Bil is good alternative, not personally familiar with the other product but I'll acknowledge that it too would be a good choice considering the source of the recommendation.

    These choices are especially important on carburetor equipped engines that see periodic use and are subjected to long term storage. This applies especially to those engines that are stored during the warm weather summer months since this is when most of the aromatic components of the fuel are allowed to evaporate. However cool and damp environments offer their own set of challenges.

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  • Fasttrack
    replied
    Originally posted by CarlByrns View Post
    At work, we recommend both Sta-Bil and Startron fuel additives for ethanol mix fuel. Our customers who use these products don't have fuel system issues. We're talking commercial air cooled carbureted engines that would be to expensive to fuel with ethanol-free premium gas.
    I bought a new Husqvarna mower a few years back and the owner's manual says the warranty will be voided if you don't use an additive to combat the effects of Ethanol at *every* fill up. The only Sta-Bil product on the shelves by me is advertised as "complete protection" or something like that and can be used for storage and as an Ethanol treatment. Now I don't even need to think about cleaning out the floats on my old snow blower. Everything runs with the Sta-Bil stuff in it and it always fires right up, even after being in storage for half the year. Seems to work...
    Last edited by Fasttrack; 05-19-2021, 02:30 PM.

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  • CarlByrns
    replied
    At work, we recommend both Sta-Bil and Startron fuel additives for ethanol mix fuel. Our customers who use these products don't have fuel system issues. We're talking commercial air cooled carbureted engines that would be to expensive to fuel with ethanol-free premium gas.

    Leave a comment:


  • Willy
    replied
    Some very good observations mentioned on the issues associated with the use of oxygenated fuels, they pretty well echo my experiences as well.

    Geographic variables, weather etc. and the fact that all fuels from various sources although meeting a standard, are not the same also play a role.I believe that variables in the supply and distribution chain of the elastomers used can also be a contributing factor.

    Although the auto industry has been very responsive in meeting the challenges with the use of ethanol fuel blends, they also do not as a rule have to deal with the seasonal use of their products. This and the fact that they do not have to contend with a fuel system that is vented to the atmosphere as freely as those on lawn and garden power equipment is also another key to this random puzzle. Even the finest fuels available will cause major problems if left in a carburetor too long since the float bowl is freely vented to the atmosphere. Diaphragm or "pumper" type carbs on two cycle engines are a bit better able to handle this aspect since they are mostly a sealed system.

    I see that while small engine manufactures and those from the marine industry are now begrudgingly approving the use of 10% ethanol blends they are gagging at the thought of having to deal with 15% blends. I think this speaks volumes about the issue being a real one.

    I realize the problem is not a blanket one that is all inclusive, it is however a real enough threat to not be ignored.
    Much as in smoking cigarettes, even though I know of those that have smoked a pack and a half of cigarettes till they hit a hundred, it's still not a habit I would endorse.

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  • wierdscience
    replied
    Originally posted by Joel View Post
    A bit north of DFW Darin. So, the southern blends of fuel don't attack the diaphragms like northern blends?
    So, do you northerners have more of a problem than those of us in the south? Shouldn't snow machines and snow blowers have proportionally more troubles due to their use being specifically during cold weather, when the blends might be most problematic?
    What's a snowblower?😉 I'm further south than you, but far enough east to be in a conventional blend area. It's not an easy problem to put a finger on, some engines have trouble and some don't. I mostly don't have trouble with mine, but then again I don't buy gas with Ethanol in it if I have the choice. I remember gas back in the day didn't have these issues, the only trouble back then was it lacquering up in the tank.

    Here's a handy map if you want to find ethanol free gas in your state-
    https://www.pure-gas.org/extensions/...p?statecode=TX

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  • eKretz
    replied
    I don't think that's completely the case ( hardening solely due to winter/cold weather gasoline formulations). I have been through a large number of summer-use-only carbs (jetskis) with the same hardened diaphragm problems. Those would almost certainly never have had winter formulation fuel put in their tanks.

    I have had the problems in mowers, weed trimmers, snowblowers, dirtbikes, jetskis, chainsaws, etc. Never had the problem in a fuel injected gasoline engine, and never in a diesel.
    Last edited by eKretz; 05-19-2021, 02:14 AM.

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