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Did find one issue with the Ranger, possible factory setup problem.

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  • #31
    Paul: That's interesting! If that is the issue, the dealer can't fix it.

    My experieince with that issue is that it makes the steering odd, but maybe they set it to just before it gets odd.

    The ridiculous 5k tire rotation idea is then just a bandaid to disguise the early wear due to a bad setting. Remember the Ford Explorer rollover issue? There was a super low inflation pressure recommended on those, well below the tire maker recommendations. Ford is bad about cover-ups.

    That said, I like the truck, I'd still not want that "Colorado" POS as a replacement. The one I test drove was the worst piece of crap I have ever driven, and after 3 minutes I just wanted to be out of it..

    Originally posted by Jim Stewart View Post
    May be a bit early, Jerry, but does Missouri have a lemon law?

    -js
    It does, but I have ZERO intention of trying to claim, and it is probably past the time anyhow. Regardless of this oddity, it is clearly the best truck of the lot I test drove. Many of the others I cannot see driving 10 hours straight, but this one I can do that with, and not suffer. It gets better mileage, has better capacity, and drives better in terms of not tiring me out.

    I just need to get to the bottom of this.

    The dealer suggested getting new tires and an alignment.... 1) Already got one alignment, seeing about another. 2) I'm not buying ANY new tires until this is straightened out, the next set will just wear out the same way.
    2730

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan

    Everything not impossible is compulsory

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    • #32
      If you had rotated the tires every 15,000 miles, by 30,000 miles the wear would probably be only half as bad as it is now (although would be on all 4 tires), and you might get 45,000 miles or even 60,000 by the time it got this bad. The rear tires typically wear much less unless you usually carry heavy loads or "burn rubber" a lot.
      http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png
      Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
      USA Maryland 21030

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      • #33
        Jerry, Just to jump onto what Paul posted.... I worked closely with a local Sheriffs department doing the upfit on new cars. I installed lights, radios, radar and camera systems and more. One other thing was to decommission the cars before public sale when they were aged out. The department aged out the cars and trucks at 100,000 miles or 5 years. One thing I noticed on EVERY Ford Crown Victoria police package car was front tire wear like your truck showed. I asked the county shop mechanics about it as I was thinking about one of the cars as a spare. They would sell for 1000 or less and were maintained as per spec, no exceptions. The mechanic told me that the Police Package vehicles had extreme camber and toe-in, by design, to enhance steering stability at high speed and also to "snap" the steering back to center with minimum overshoot. The county would barely get 30K on a set of really good tires and they rotated them with oil changes because of the wear.
        I know your truck is not a police vehicle, but is speaks volumes that Ford would do this, to that extent, for simple performance. The Dodge Charger police package handled better, went faster and only burned through two sets of tires even with the deputies spinning tires at every chance they got. I passed on the Fords and grabbed one of the Dodges 🙄.
        Talk to a GOOD alignment shop with at least one old timer and ask them to "Make it right, from THEIR experience NOT Fords"! You will be able to find a mid point that minimises tire wear and still drives good.
        Robin

        Happily working on my second million Gave up on the first

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        • #34
          Originally posted by rdfeil View Post
          Jerry, Just to jump onto what Paul posted.... I worked closely with a local Sheriffs department doing the upfit on new cars. .

          Always nice to hear from the mechanics. The crown Vic was what I liked comeing from the Chevy. The Chevy had more power but the crown vic was easier to control in a tight environment that is Los Angeles at high speed.

          It oversteered more than the chevy that layed flat. . Oversteer works well when you are Code-3 in a populated area. You think no, no way. Oversteer is loss of control. Yeah. Lets go to the Pomona Fair Grounds.. JR


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          • #35
            Originally posted by JRouche View Post


            Always nice to hear from the mechanics. The crown Vic was what I liked comeing from the Chevy. The Chevy had more power but the crown vic was easier to control in a tight environment that is Los Angeles at high speed.

            It oversteered more than the chevy that layed flat. . Oversteer works well when you are Code-3 in a populated area. You think no, no way. Oversteer is loss of control. Yeah. Lets go to the Pomona Fair Grounds.. JR

            Yes, I know, I got the word wrong. Under and oversteer, Just flip the words and it is good JR

            P.S.> I built my racing car to have a lot of oversteer. I like it like that.

            Most production cars are built with understeer for a good reason. JR
            Last edited by JRouche; 06-25-2021, 03:12 AM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by JRouche View Post



              Toe in. Not sure how yours is adjusted, some are upper control arms and some are struts.


              Toe in would wear the outer sides of both fronts --- toe out would wear the insides like in JT's pic --- but it would be accompanied with feathered edges on the rest of the tire as it's like dragging a tire sideways down the road and also would be an extreme example - but it can happen --- I do not visibly see feathered edges so it's most likely a negative camber issue on BOTH sides...

              Both radical toe in and toe out are accompanied with poor fuel economy as it's like a braking effect while driving and JT's steed is doing pretty good with it's MPG rating - again - it's a negative camber problemo...
              Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 06-25-2021, 08:20 AM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

                This should not be happening.

                No, it is not alignment. Had that checked.

                Correct - it should not be happening --- incorrect - it is alignment... be it a screw up of fords factory specs (yes it happens) or the alignment shop... an underinflated tire will cause wear on the sides but it will be both the inner and the outer, you have a negative camber issue...

                I thought this was a new truck? thing looks like a rust bucket, take a look at that lower control arm --- damn - by the time you pay one off it's a total POS.... Im working on 20 and 30 year old vehicles out here and they don't have anything at all like that in fact some absolutely nothing even in bare metal spots that are sand blasted over the years from road debris...
                I would not wrench on cars if I lived in your area, but then again - I would not live in your area in the first place...

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                  I would not wrench on cars if I lived in your area, but then again - I would not live in your area in the first place...
                  Now, that was not very kind. You should try wrenching in Upstate NY where they use salt by the ton. For me, it's pretty much a guaranteed job because rust never sleeps. Rust keeps me in work, (corporate fleet maint) along with the usual wear-n-tear and driver idiocy.
                  25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post

                    Now, that was not very kind. You should try wrenching in Upstate NY where they use salt by the ton. For me, it's pretty much a guaranteed job because rust never sleeps. Rust keeps me in work, (corporate fleet maint) along with the usual wear-n-tear and driver idiocy.
                    Your right that was a little snobby lol

                    You do have Job security im sure, I just like getting the right socket to fit the right nut or bolt head and not having to pound one on that's meant for a smaller size lol

                    im originally from michigan so know all to well about what your dealing with including much of the stuff that your trying to get off and back on rusted through and worthless,,,

                    I remember the ratio of fasteners that would break before coming off and that's using penetrating oil and such - sometimes it seemed to be about 1 in 10 and sometimes far less,

                    I break about 1 in 1,000 --- it's very nice to disassemble stuff the way it was originally intended....

                    I said this before - if I lived in the rust belt I would not wrench on cars - id rather have Al Bundy's job and sell shoe's to phat women...
                    Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 06-25-2021, 09:15 AM.

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                    • #40
                      LOL yeah I know what you mean. I reached a point where I simply accept it. Kinda like accepting getting screwed, or losing the football game. At work, I don't even bother with the wrenches, I use the torch first. I use the torch about 10X more than wrenches -- its cheaper for the company that way, instead of me spending an hour dicking around trying to save a fastener.

                      What *really* kills me is, they make A-arms out of sheet-metal nowadays.... Ggrrrrrr..... and front clips are total sheet metal instead of plate. Thank goodness I work in a heavy truck shop now, 10 tons and up. It makes life a lot simpler in some ways.

                      PS I have family in Bay City and Ann Arbor, we used to commute thru Canada to and from Buffalo (me).

                      Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post

                      Your right that was a little snobby lol

                      You do have Job security im sure, I just like getting the right socket to fit the right nut or bolt head and not having to pound one on that's meant for a smaller size lol

                      im originally from michigan so know all to well about what your dealing with including much of the stuff that your trying to get off and back on rusted through and worthless,,,

                      I remember the ratio of fasteners that would break before coming off and that's using penetrating oil and such - sometimes it seemed to be about 1 in 10 and sometimes far less,

                      I break about 1 in 1,000 --- it's very nice to disassemble stuff the way it was originally intended....

                      I said this before - if I lived in the rust belt I would not wrench on cars - id rather have Al Bundy's job and sell shoe's to phat women...
                      Last edited by nickel-city-fab; 06-25-2021, 09:29 AM.
                      25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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                      • #41
                        Some good information here.
                        Lots of BAD information here.
                        Lots of opinions here based on righteous logic that are ill informed.
                        Consider there is a real reason for the tire wear that was intentional,
                        and a rest of an engineering solution to a constraint or criteria.
                        Example... There is a federal highway regulation that involves vehicles
                        must pass a test that involves driving the vehicle at 55 mph and turning
                        the steering wheel to full lock, and the vehicle must not roll over.
                        Ways to set the suspension up to achieve this are generally either
                        limiting the angle of the steering by putting stops on the spindles
                        and/or also setting up a combination of king pin inclination and also
                        caster to make the wheels lean into a turn, like a motorcycle would.
                        These setting are great at speed (55mph or higher) but lead so scrubbing
                        the tires at parking lot speeds. That is because castor setting is considering
                        sidewall flex at a certain speed, with the end result of keeping the tread
                        flat on the road. But at parking lot speeds where there is no sidewall flex
                        because there is no weight transfer, the caster geometry ends up trying to
                        make the tire contact patch anything but flat on the ground, and you get
                        edge loading of the tread, and hence the wear.
                        So this wear you are experiencing may be the result of engineering compromises
                        implemented in order to pass the 55mph roll over test. To pass this rest, the
                        Corvair engineers specified different tire pressures on the front and rear tires,
                        because they were constrained by the swing arm suspension design.
                        So simply to say the truck needs an alignment or to say Ford effed up with their
                        alignment specs is really just an knee jerk and possible uninformed opinion.
                        Most likely this is an engineering compromise. Maybe not a good one from the
                        end customer point of view, but from a money and safety point of view, it made
                        sense to somebody in an office somewhere. So just keep an open mind when
                        we encounter situations like this. The reason might not be bad alignment or bad
                        specifications. Consider the design and specifications might be a compromise
                        to achieve a certain goal in the larger picture. Can you take away castor and
                        fix YOUR issue? You might be able to adjust the A-arms some, but I suspect
                        only so much adjustment is available. Will it invalidate the 55mph rollover spec?
                        Maybe. You might be messin' with the rules the gubment gave us to keep us safe.
                        It might upset your ideology. I promise you, it won't change mine.

                        --Doozer
                        DZER

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Doozer View Post
                          Consider there is a real reason for the tire wear that was intentional,
                          and a rest of an engineering solution to a constraint or criteria.
                          Example... There is a federal highway regulation that involves vehicles
                          must pass a test that involves driving the vehicle at 55 mph and turning
                          the steering wheel to full lock, and the vehicle must not roll over.
                          ............
                          You might be able to adjust the A-arms some, but I suspect
                          only so much adjustment is available. Will it invalidate the 55mph rollover spec?
                          Maybe. You might be messin' with the rules the gubment gave us to keep us safe.
                          It might upset your ideology. I promise you, it won't change mine.

                          --Doozer
                          Damn man, once again Doozer nails it. This is all news to me, I just learned something. Thanks! Very Informative!
                          25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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                          • #43
                            It's a good point Dooze and might very well be the reason they cannot find fault with the specs (the alignment shop) and one of the reasons why ford (or honda for that matter) would do it, but it's kinda a butchers way of dealing with things if it's doing that to a tire, I mean even if he kept them rotated it would take at least 1/3rd life off of all tires so if an auto manufacturer is using this "trick" to cover for a vehicle that does not have enough track width or is a little too top heavy or whatever then it should at least come with some kinda disclaimer stating the fact that you will NEVER achieve a tire manufacturers full mileage rating,,,
                            I do bring up honda because they are notorious for this very same problem and in fact - JT states that he cannot tell a diff between the front and the rear camber and the rears are wearing good (straight axle most likely) but certain era honda's are easy to tell at first glance - the front's are way negative and the tires wear on the inside and there's no real adjustments to alter that fact unless you go aftermarket components that have adjustments built into them... and toss on a wider set of hides like allot of people do and the problem gets even worse....

                            I can see a little compromise in this area, but nothing like what JT is experiencing - if that's the case then you just plain have to state that the vehicle is designed incorrectly and the tire compensation is doing nothing but taking care of a "brain fart" in an "afterthought" kinda way....

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                            • #44
                              Last but not least ---- as far as proper alignment goes, it does not matter where the incompetence lies - be it the vehicle designed incorrectly and then adding butcher/afterthought correcting measures or an alignment shop reading things wrong or the manufacturer just plain screwing up the "formula" they send out,

                              The tires in said pic in the OP are undergoing "alignment issues" plain and simple --- they are out of alignment, there's also an unwritten code that states this should never happen under normal conditions and tires should not be used to run off on one side their entire life... Drastic mis-alignment to take care of poor engineering in other area's is never acceptable... it's just plain wrong...
                              it's also a safety factor in itself due to the tires needing to be discarded at less then half their mileage rating due to them being able to hydroplane or poor stopping in the rain and snow because the area of the highest unit pressure is below acceptable range...
                              So you can create all the "write up's" on them having to compensate to make it "safer" when it leaves the factory that you want, but if the majority of it's life is spent actually being more unsafe then it's all for moot...

                              Like it or not and as I originally stated - that vehicle has an alignment problemo....

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                The Ford truck is indeed a straight axle rear, as they should be.
                                Problem is, he said he can't rotate the tires anyhow since they used a directional tread or different sizes front to rear.
                                (my solution to that one would be to put a set of same-size Goodyear Wranglers on all 4 corners, and then re-adjust the alignment to suit.)
                                (Wranglers can be rotated without any extra bother -- but they cost a fortune)

                                I would then go online and diss the manufacturer *and* the dealer very loudly and publicly. Make sure they get poor reviews.

                                Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                                I do bring up honda because they are notorious for this very same problem and in fact - JT states that he cannot tell a diff between the front and the rear camber and the rears are wearing good (straight axle most likely) but certain era honda's are easy to tell at first glance - the front's are way negative and the tires wear on the inside and there's no real adjustments to alter that fact unless you go aftermarket components that have adjustments built into them... and toss on a wider set of hides like allot of people do and the problem gets even worse....

                                I can see a little compromise in this area, but nothing like what JT is experiencing - if that's the case then you just plain have to state that the vehicle is designed incorrectly and the tire compensation is doing nothing but taking care of a "brain fart" in an "afterthought" kinda way....
                                25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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