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RPC with Centrifugal Clutch on Pony Motor

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  • RPC with Centrifugal Clutch on Pony Motor

    I was playing around with this setup in the Hot Temps and had some scrap aluminum to put it together and gave it a test,worked flawless.The idler is a 10hp Baldor 1740 rpm,pony motor 3/4 hp 3450 rpm (Go cart clutch would not engage with a 1740 rpm motor).Excuse the cobbled up wiring was only to see how it would work,power to pony motor is only for 2 seconds and switch on Idler.Was happy with 53 decibels @ 3’ sitting on the Forks I’m guessing it would be quieter on Rubber Feet. Click image for larger version

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  • #2
    All right! Thanks for the details mate. I was thinking motors side my side with a belt, but inline is just as compact. How did you have them hooked together?
    21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
    1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

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    • #3
      TTT, that is the most awesomely overbuilt and exquisitely machined switch holder I have ever seen! It's a work of industrial art.

      Cool idea on the inline deal, how did you get them both lined up? I'm guessing the shiny tube from the idler is keyed/ screwed to the outside of the centrifugal clutch, which then freewheels on the pony motor shaft when the pony motor is switched off? Very elegant idea.

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      • #4
        I had thought about building my own, maybe 25 years ago. I had thought about a sprag bearing, with the motors inline as you did. So many unanswered questions, I decided to abandon the project. nice job, and thanks for posting.
        I cut it off twice; it's still too short
        Oregon, USA

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        • #5
          Having been messing around with go- kart clutches like that recently, they're pretty easy to take apart and re- spring for lower revs.
          You might have to make/find your own, as the current crop of motors spin a LOT faster than the 3 hp Briggs we had when I was a kid...

          t
          +1 for that switch tower...
          rusting in Seattle

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          • #6
            Originally posted by The Metal Butcher View Post
            All right! Thanks for the details mate. I was thinking motors side my side with a belt, but inline is just as compact. How did you have them hooked together?
            Butcher I’m assuming your talking about the wiring,I just ran them manually to see how clutch would work.

            Originally posted by mattthemuppet View Post
            TTT, that is the most awesomely overbuilt and exquisitely machined switch holder I have ever seen! It's a work of industrial art.

            Cool idea on the inline deal, how did you get them both lined up? I'm guessing the shiny tube from the idler is keyed/ screwed to the outside of the centrifugal clutch, which then freewheels on the pony motor shaft when the pony motor is switched off? Very elegant idea.
            The billet piece holding the switch is a Airplane or Helicopter Part as scrap came from a Machine Shop that built those pieces.The shiny tube I made is keyed to Idler and fixed to idler,the only time there’s any connection is the 2 seconds when pony motor engages clutch to spin Idler.
            Originally posted by Tim Clarke View Post
            I had thought about building my own, maybe 25 years ago. I had thought about a sprag bearing, with the motors inline as you did. So many unanswered questions, I decided to abandon the project. nice job, and thanks for posting.
            Thanks Tim
            Originally posted by Tobias-B View Post
            Having been messing around with go- kart clutches like that recently, they're pretty easy to take apart and re- spring for lower revs.
            You might have to make/find your own, as the current crop of motors spin a LOT faster than the 3 hp Briggs we had when I was a kid...

            t
            +1 for that switch tower...
            This one had a tight spring engagement was rated at 2200 ish rpm.

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            • #7
              "Pony Motor"

              Love that. Have not heard the term before using a old Cat bulldozzer. Pre hydraulics, Cables for blade lift,

              The D8 had a winche and cables to lift the blade. No hydros.

              It did have a small diesel four cylinder "Pony" motor to start the big diesel. Fun times. JR

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              • #8
                I haven't seen a clutch like that since my mini bike days. Nice job, and great idea too.

                JL..............

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                • #9
                  Getting that lined up well looks like a bit of a task. Obviously you got it done. I think I also would have gone with the belt drive to avoid messing wth it.

                  Nice work and happy to see that it works just as we thought it would.
                  .
                  .
                  .

                  Looks like that tosses the theory about back-driving bidirectional centrifugal clutches that was brought up in a different thread....... also about doing this exact thing, TTT said he was going to test it, and here is the result!
                  CNC machines only go through the motions

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                    Getting that lined up well looks like a bit of a task. Obviously you got it done. I think I also would have gone with the belt drive to avoid messing wth it.

                    Nice work and happy to see that it works just as we thought it would.
                    .
                    .
                    .

                    Looks like that tosses the theory about back-driving bidirectional centrifugal clutches that was brought up in a different thread....... also about doing this exact thing, TTT said he was going to test it, and here is the result!
                    X2 glad to see someone actually did it. I remember that thread and wondering why anyone thought back-driving a centrifugal clutch was possible, I lost a few IQ points reading that.
                    25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post

                      ................. I lost a few IQ points reading that.
                      Good one! Now you owe me for the coffee stains on my shirt!
                      CNC machines only go through the motions

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mattthemuppet View Post
                        TTT, that is the most awesomely overbuilt and exquisitely machined switch holder I have ever seen! It's a work of industrial art.

                        Cool idea on the inline deal, how did you get them both lined up? I'm guessing the shiny tube from the idler is keyed/ screwed to the outside of the centrifugal clutch, which then freewheels on the pony motor shaft when the pony motor is switched off? Very elegant idea.
                        Sorry Matt neglected to mention the alignment thing,it was very simple to align the two motors.I loosened the set screws on Clutch Drum on Idler and slid towards Pony motor which has Flange Mount nearly same dia as Clutch Drum.
                        Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                        Getting that lined up well looks like a bit of a task. Obviously you got it done. I think I also would have gone with the belt drive to avoid messing wth it.

                        Nice work and happy to see that it works just as we thought it would.
                        .
                        .
                        .

                        Looks like that tosses the theory about back-driving bidirectional centrifugal clutches that was brought up in a different thread....... also about doing this exact thing, TTT said he was going to test it, and here is the result!
                        This Pony Motor only runs for 2 seconds and doesn’t even get Idler up to 1740 rpm,Bump start it could be called.I’ve seen back-driving on Centrifugal Clutches numerous times depending on design of weights & spring and how secondary clutch is configured( No Secondary on this setup).The Pony Motor with this setup stops turning in about 10 seconds after power is off and Idler stays running.Clutch with 5/8” bore was off Amazon $30 cdn. and not super balanced by a long shot.

                        I have no need for this at present time and hope I don’t get any more machine’s lol!

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                        • #13
                          I will try to explain the Back-Driving I’ve experienced many times on Snowmobiles in the Mountains.When dropping off very steep slopes 50-85 deg. the Belt will grab the disengaged Primary Clutch and over rev the Engine,only way to stop that is hit the Brakes or Hit the throttle on a already over reving engine.I know it sounds impossible but have experienced many times in last 36 years.

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                          • #14
                            That can happen with certain combinations of speeds and power coming from the driven source, along with the nature of the transition. It is not a widespread phenomenon with any and all centrifugal clutches, the majority of which do not have the necessary conditions.

                            It basically has never happened in any setup I have dealt with, largely due to the way the driving/driven transition occurred. In a pony motor, best avoided by having the pony drive to a faster speed, with the clutch action between the pony speed and the idler speed. That's because the pony puts little load on the clutch, so does not tend to "shock it free" as many other applications do.

                            It is possible to make it happen, by choice of speeds, and/or by having such a smooth transition in power direction that the clutch is never shocked into retracting.

                            Systems do need to be "designed".
                            CNC machines only go through the motions

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                              That can happen with certain combinations of speeds and power coming from the driven source, along with the nature of the transition. It is not a widespread phenomenon with any and all centrifugal clutches, the majority of which do not have the necessary conditions.

                              It basically has never happened in any setup I have dealt with, largely due to the way the driving/driven transition occurred. In a pony motor, best avoided by having the pony drive to a faster speed, with the clutch action between the pony speed and the idler speed. That's because the pony puts little load on the clutch, so does not tend to "shock it free" as many other applications do.

                              It is possible to make it happen, by choice of speeds, and/or by having such a smooth transition in power direction that the clutch is never shocked into retracting.

                              Systems do need to be "designed".
                              With the advancements in Snowmobile Tracks for Deep Snow some as big 175” long with 3” paddles(my current machine as that) the traction they have freewheeling down the Steep Slopes compounds the Driven concept.When you consider these things going 70 mph on flat ground in full shift mode Driven can exceed 8000 rpm,then idle off the top of a slope with Primary not engaged.The 12” dia driven is spinning that belt at unbelievable speed.

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