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  • I understand we have problems of our own, but am shocked that none of the major news stations are covering this (that I watch). And please, no silly talk about
    all the news networks lying about everything. We hear news from other nations all the time, just floors me that this isn't being covered. This is horrific.

    But good luck Plunger, and try and take care of yourself, and may I add that big Emco.
    John Titor, when are you.

    Comment


    • Unfortunatly, the problem with africa, in my oppiion, is the colonial borders. I remember before we left South Africa around 1980 the attenpt of the gouvernment to devide South Africa into different local states much like USA but this wasn't "approved" by the rest of the world. If I remember well, the first states were Transkei and Bophuthatswana. Maybe this would have been a good solution
      Helder Ferreira
      Setubal, Portugal

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      • I think the problem of many African countries is that they are run by corruption, nepotism and plunderers of the treasury. It requires a strong moral value system and men of great character to stand up to these temptations and successfully run a country.
        When De Klerk and Mandela left the stage there seem to not have been any decent candidates....

        Comment


        • Hey, it is universal.... The US has massive looting of the treasury as well. Probably more than almost any other country, just because the money is there. It just is not usually done openly with armed gangs. Instead it is done with laws and budget allocations.

          The problem with governments anywhere is those dang people who operate them. The lot of them are mostly looters, or beholden to looters. There are exceptions.

          Anyone who WANTS that badly to be in government is suspect, and probably should be disqualified from office.. Very possibly the job of being a senator or representative, etc, right down to the local level should be by a draft system instead of campaigning and elections.

          Folks who were OK on the local level would be eligible to be drafted for wider office at state or national level.

          2730

          Keep eye on ball.
          Hashim Khan

          Everything not impossible is compulsory

          Comment


          • Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
            Anyone who WANTS that badly to be in government is suspect, and probably should be disqualified from office.
            Does that include anyone running for City Council?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by tomato coupe View Post
              Does that include anyone running for City Council?
              Yes, of course.

              I did say there are exceptions. Right now, there are 2 exceptions on the council here. Out of 7.

              Most localities probably have the same issues.

              Folks drafted for local office would have an opportunity to prove themselves to be exceptions, or not. I suggest an algorithm, and not a committee for selection, but then there is always the question of who wrote it.
              Last edited by J Tiers; 08-23-2021, 10:32 AM.
              2730

              Keep eye on ball.
              Hashim Khan

              Everything not impossible is compulsory

              Comment


              • Originally posted by plunger View Post
                Tomorrow the country is on high alert. There is potential for serious violence and destruction tomorrow. ...
                Now is the day of reckoning. My friend Peter, who lives in the Durban suburb of Phoenix a few kilometers from your house, sends the following:

                We are OK but cautious and won't be going anywhere tomorrow - unless absolutely necessary. The biggest armed response security company in Phoenix is only 500m away and a panic button away. Police and Army are everywhere and on high alert.

                This is an extremist group of Zuma people who are taking advantage of their earlier disruption and scare mongering. Copybook terror, which may fool their followers 'but which fools not me' - with apologies to Keats. Take care, Peter




                Allan Ostling

                Phoenix, Arizona

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                • Things went smoothly today. Only a few sporadic incidents here and there. Amazing that the countries police and army openly admit they don't have the ability to look after its citizens and have asked for help from the CPF,s . (community policing forum) I am so relieved for now but don't believe this is over. I need to try get some shuteye before I do my 12 00 to 02.00 am CPF shift. .

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                    Hey, it is universal.... The US has massive looting of the treasury as well. Probably more than almost any other country, just because the money is there. It just is not usually done openly with armed gangs. Instead it is done with laws and budget allocations.

                    The problem with governments anywhere is those dang people who operate them. The lot of them are mostly looters, or beholden to looters. There are exceptions.

                    Anyone who WANTS that badly to be in government is suspect, and probably should be disqualified from office.. Very possibly the job of being a senator or representative, etc, right down to the local level should be by a draft system instead of campaigning and elections.

                    Folks who were OK on the local level would be eligible to be drafted for wider office at state or national level.
                    Remember there are two types of people that want to be politicians, crooks and people that are to stupid to be crooks.

                    Even if you send local reps that are actually honest, they won't stay that way. There is to much pressure by special interest groups and lobbyists to take a bribe from them, the "quid pro quo" that Trump doesn't seem to understand. Even the best will bend over time.
                    The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

                    Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

                    Southwestern Ontario. Canada

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by loose nut View Post

                      Remember there are two types of people that want to be politicians, crooks and people that are to stupid to be crooks.

                      Even if you send local reps that are actually honest, they won't stay that way. There is to much pressure by special interest groups and lobbyists to take a bribe from them, the "quid pro quo" that Trump doesn't seem to understand. Even the best will bend over time.
                      .
                      That's why you have to watch 'em.

                      Actually, the elected political folks are not the biggest problem. The big issue is always the cabinet members, and how they run the departments they supervise. Especially the people who write contracts and manage contractors. The "unelected government" managers.

                      I've seen estimates that show maybe 20% of the expenditures on infrastructure, etc at home, and in places we have "liberated", actually goes somewhere useful and not into the contractors pockets.
                      2730

                      Keep eye on ball.
                      Hashim Khan

                      Everything not impossible is compulsory

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                        .
                        That's why you have to watch 'em.

                        Actually, the elected political folks are not the biggest problem. The big issue is always the cabinet members, and how they run the departments they supervise. Especially the people who write contracts and manage contractors. The "unelected government" managers.

                        I've seen estimates that show maybe 20% of the expenditures on infrastructure, etc at home, and in places we have "liberated", actually goes somewhere useful and not into the contractors pockets.

                        I think the bigger problem is the people who vote for them.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by jocat54-1 View Post


                          I think the bigger problem is the people who vote for them.
                          We don't get to vote for or against the real problems.... buried in the departments and protected by Civil Service rules (which rules do have their reasons and good features also).
                          2730

                          Keep eye on ball.
                          Hashim Khan

                          Everything not impossible is compulsory

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by jocat54-1 View Post
                            I think the bigger problem is the people who vote for them.
                            This is it entirely. I live in a county run by a corrupt machine. I grew up in a county run by a corrupt machine of the other party. There are few saints. We are good friends with a woman (our kids are best friends)who became mayor of Hoboken when her predecessor was arrested in his 3d week in office for receiving a bag of cash in a parking lot during the campaign. This was normal doings around here. She ran for council to get a park in her neighborhood, was, and is, clean as the driven snow, but the muck of the local politics we heard about was amazing. Hoboken is famously gentrified, but the 'born and raised' faction wields enormous power because they're organized and the yuppies are apathetic.

                            Patronage jobs and contracts are a currency, everyone has their hands out. But you gotta play. Where I grew up, to get a county job, or even a locker at the county beaches you needed to be a party member. There was a small scandal a few years back when it was disclosed a guy was a full time teacher at the county high school, AND a full time manager at the city parking authority. He was fine. He was a 'made man' in the county machine, and they take care of their own. A councilman resigned in disgrace after drunkenly pissing on a crowd from a balcony at a Grateful Dead cover band show. Within a few years he was an assistant principal at a local HS making $130k and vesting a nice pension. Made Man.

                            The thing is, people support the muck, as long as they believe they're getting their share. The municipal unions treat the city as a jobs program, the construction unions view our money as theirs and lobby for public works, the housing project residents vote for whoever their sketchy 'community organizer' leaders tell them will bring dollars to their neighborhood. We had a famous mayor for decades, Frank Hague, who brought in Federal money during the depression and was hugely popular. He built a hospital 10 sizes too big for the city, and it was said he made a buck on every brick. He had a saying "I am the Law!" And he was, just like any kleptocrat, as long as people let them do it.
                            Location: Jersey City NJ USA

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by gellfex View Post

                              This is it entirely. I live in a county run by a corrupt machine. I grew up in a county run by a corrupt machine of the other party. There are few saints. ..............
                              Those folks have a big support organization in the unseen and unelected government.

                              I lived in the City of St Louis for a while. Went down to pay my property tax (vehicle, not house, I rented). The then collector of revenue (this was decades ago) took my money, and stuck it in her pocket. She was notorious. She was elected, but the office folks supported the corruption.

                              I did get a receipt.......

                              The issue with relatively new republics is that they have not gotten rid of the idea that corruption is normal and acceptable. Many such are places that you always need to have "an envelope" along with whatever form you need to turn in for something, or it does not happen.
                              Last edited by J Tiers; 08-23-2021, 11:43 PM.
                              2730

                              Keep eye on ball.
                              Hashim Khan

                              Everything not impossible is compulsory

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by plunger View Post
                                Things went smoothly today. Only a few sporadic incidents here and there. Amazing that the countries police and army openly admit they don't have the ability to look after its citizens and have asked for help from the CPF,s . (community policing forum) I am so relieved for now but don't believe this is over. I need to try get some shuteye before I do my 12 00 to 02.00 am CPF shift. .
                                That's GREAT news. I wonder if the central government will consider disbursing some of their arms to the CPFs so that they can at least have a decent chance of pushing back an assault.
                                At the end of the project, there is a profound difference between spare parts and left over parts.

                                Location: SF East Bay.

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