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[OT] Windows 11 and compatibility with existing machines

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  • [OT] Windows 11 and compatibility with existing machines

    I've received some notices about upcoming Windows 11 to be introduced in a few months, but it seems to be a marketing ploy by M$ to force you to purchase very new high end machines, where they get financial kickback from manufacturers. The main feature of Win11 appears to be the ability to run Android apps.

    http://pauleschoen.com/pix/PM08_P76_P54.png
    Paul , P S Technology, Inc. and MrTibbs
    USA Maryland 21030

  • #2
    It's not called a kickback, it's called a license (potato/potahto). For me, it's irrelevant. I have clients still happily running Win7, who will continue to do so until browser support disappears or the hardware craps out. Oddly enough, M$ has backed off and allowed Win7 machines to install the Edge browser (not that anybody cares). Unless there is some earth-shaking must have feature in Win11, it will be adopted when they buy a new computer. M$ still hasn't figured out how to obsolete the hardware the way Apple does.
    It's all mind over matter.
    If you don't mind, it don't matter.

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    • #3
      I have read that "upgrading" from Win 10 to Win 11 can be a real PITA. You have to change your BIOS, and then install what amounts to MS's rootkit. At this point you are committed. Going back is really hard.

      I like my Win 7 system.

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      • #4
        I’m running the dev version of Win 11 on my gaming machine. Just turned on TPM in the bios and hit install and it did it itself just fine.

        if you have a machine made within the last 5 years or so there should be no issues upgrading other than turning on TPM if it is not already.

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        • #5
          So a guy tries running a pre-release version of an OS, has problems installing it, and thus the entire OS is a garbage cash grab?

          Windows 11 isnt out yet, bit early to be calling out problems with compatibility. Even if windows 11 doesnt work on every old PC, how exactly is that a problem? Whatever OS is currently installed on said computer doesnt uninstall itself, and Microsoft actually has a pretty good track record for supporting EOL software. Windows 10 released in 2015, Windows 7 didnt stop recieving support until 2020. Given that the average PC lifespan is 3-5 years, if you bought a new computer with Windows 7 installed when 10 had just released, odds are the computer died before the OS was no longer supported, and it almost certainly reached obsoleteness way before its death.

          Honestly, freaking out about Windows 11 not working on some older PCs is like getting mad that an 86 Camaro cant fill its gas tank by plugging into a wall outlet like a Tesla can. Technology marches on and making every new bit of software support every old bit of hardware is a waste of time

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          • #6
            Not actually on topic in this thread but I recently began running a new lathe that is based on Windows 7.
            It is fairly stable, however after a system freeze the machine completely forgets what it is (-:

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            • #7
              Originally posted by epicfail48 View Post
              .......................... Given that the average PC lifespan is 3-5 years, if you bought a new computer with Windows 7 installed when 10 had just released, odds are the computer died before the OS was no longer supported, and it almost certainly reached obsoleteness way before its death.

              ..................
              Generally agree about software..... but don't forget, part of the "lifetime" of computers is just that the OS goes obsolete. So computers get discarded when the installed OS is either not supported, or the application software in use is "upgraded" to a new version and no longer runs on the installed OS, or memory amount.

              COULD the old computer be upgraded with the new OS and/or memory? In many cases, yes. DOES the computer owner actually DO that? Often NOT, because they see that they will pay a fair bit for the new OS, while they can pay, in some cases, not much more to get a new computer with the new OS installed. Buying the new OS at retail often costs a lot, and usually the application software puts new demands on the computer as well. It just looks to be a better deal to replace it.

              I bought a new computer when a major program I use (CAD) required Win 10. It also required new graphics, and really needed more memory than I had installed, of an expensive and less common type. The cost of upgrading everything to run decently was over half the cost of the new computer, and if I spent that, I'd still have an 8 year old computer, which had had 2 OS upgrades during its life, with virtually no expansion room. Did not make sense.

              I have had several computers quit. Every one of them was older than 5 years. I still have computers that run nearly all the Windows versions that have been available. That includes 3.1, and DOS. I have them because each runs something that others will not. I also have at least one that runs a pre-Microsoft OS.

              So far they are all working. One is from the late 1970s.
              2730

              Keep eye on ball.
              Hashim Khan

              Everything not impossible is compulsory

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              • #8
                One can always go GNU/Linux if they want to free themselves of typical publicly traded big business practices. Otherwise make do, as we all have the past three or four decades.

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                • #9
                  I am sooo absolutely fed up with Microshaft.Their pathetic bloatware keeps developing and becomes more complicated every day. Yeah, yeah, they have to do it for a revenue stream.
                  Things that used to be easy to do are now more difficult. My next machine will certainly be a Linux something.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MrWhoopee View Post
                    I M$ still hasn't figured out how to obsolete the hardware the way Apple does.
                    Yes they have. The whole point of only letting the most modern computers with the "right" parts in it be able to upgrade is that MS hopes that it will force people to go out and buy new comp's. That is where MS makes money, selling windows 11 on OEM comps'. You don't make much giving it away like they did with Win 10. The big flaw is that why worry about it. Win 10 will work fine as long as your computer does, many still run older OS's without problems. I couldn't care less if there is a new operating system I'm still running the same software I had on Vista (I didn't upgrade to 8) and I'll run it again on my next computer with or without Win 11.

                    P.S. as far as Apple obsoleting equipment I'm still using an Apple I phone 4S. Works fine.
                    The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

                    Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

                    Southwestern Ontario. Canada

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by loose nut View Post

                      ................. Win 10 will work fine as long as your computer does, many still run older OS's without problems. I couldn't care less if there is a new operating system I'm still running the same software I had on Vista (I didn't upgrade to 8) and I'll run it again on my next computer with or without Win 11.
                      .............
                      The problem is when the software you run requires the new OS. (I use whatever OS the software I run wants) Then you get to either ditch the software which you may have a decade or more of history with, and will need to access, or just say "never going back" and start fresh with something new.

                      The latter is often not practical. And, yes, I know about running Linux with a "windows simulator" on it. That works some of the time. Not always.
                      2730

                      Keep eye on ball.
                      Hashim Khan

                      Everything not impossible is compulsory

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                        And, yes, I know about running Linux with a "windows simulator" on it. That works some of the time. Not always.
                        I remember that thread well that you were involved with. They are not "windows simulators" , the proper term is virtual machines. Virtual machines are a very proven technology that is used everyday often in extremely demanding environments such as server farms. To say it works some of the time but not always is quite obvious, more than likely due to operator error just as it is not uncommon to see someone complaining they cannot get a win10 app to run under win10 when there are thousands using the same config everyday.

                        I am sure you will insist that windows virtual machines running under Linux will not always work. A citation of a specific case of a windows software that fails for everyone would make the statement much more credible.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sparky_NY View Post

                          ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

                          I am sure you will insist that windows virtual machines running under Linux will not always work. A citation of a specific case of a windows software that fails for everyone would make the statement much more credible.
                          I will NOT say that. The real issue is the computer running one OS, with another OS under it, and the application program under THAT. Basically adding another layer.

                          Lots of things may not care. CAD is slow enough with just CAD under Windows (missing clicks etc) I hate to think what it would be like after another layer is added. Much of that is on the Windows side, no idea what the "simulator" might do..

                          But Alibre, and especially Keyshot running under windows that itself is running under some sort of Linux variety? Does not sound promising... And I am not going to buy all the stuff to find out!

                          You have to buy the "Windows simulator" on top of everything else......... (OK call it a virtual machine if you like.... is it an MS product, or not?)

                          2730

                          Keep eye on ball.
                          Hashim Khan

                          Everything not impossible is compulsory

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

                            You have to buy the "Windows simulator" on top of everything else......... (OK call it a virtual machine if you like.... is it an MS product, or not?)
                            One example is VirtualBox from Oracle which is free and I imagine there are several available for the price of hitting the download key.

                            I am not saying that VirtualBox or any other virtual machine suite for Linux will/won't be able to handle Windoze 11, time will tell.
                            Last edited by The Artful Bodger; 07-16-2021, 03:55 PM.

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                            • #15
                              My experience with most "free" software is that you get value for your money.
                              2730

                              Keep eye on ball.
                              Hashim Khan

                              Everything not impossible is compulsory

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