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Whoa! I thought $300 hammers were only available to the Military!

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  • #31
    Click image for larger version

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ID:	1952183 Looks good Ike, how does it feel. I’m a drilling hammer fan.

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    • #32
      It's light and easy to handle but it could have been brass or steel for small tapping jobs around the shop.

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      • #33
        Maybe I'm being dense, but do a thought experiment: compare a 15 oz steel hammer with a 15 oz titanium hammer. Arrange that the CG of the heads are in the same relationship to the identical handles.

        Same effort to pick up, same efforts to swing, same velocity and energy at impact. Without looking at the hammers, you couldn't tell them apart by how they swing.

        If there is truly a difference, it has to be due to some other property that determines what happens at impact. Something related to elastic modulus, maybe.

        Ed
        Last edited by ed_h; 07-18-2021, 02:17 PM.
        For just a little more, you can do it yourself!

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        • #34
          That other property is in your head not the hammer's.

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          • #35
            My 20 year old daughter is going into her Jr year at Duke University studying mechanical engineering as an honors student, but her love is physics and mathematics. I ran it by her and she said that one should look at the momentum for all colliding bodies. While she did not give me a definitive answer, just some physics stuff I didn't fully understand, one point she made is that this should be looked at as an inelastic collision where some of the kinetic energy is converted to other forms of energy such as heat. She said that maybe the elastic properties of the 2 materials contributed to a difference. I switched from a 22 oz hammer to an Estwing 19 oz framer and I love it. My brother was banging 10d nails along side me the other day with his 28 oz hammer and I could see how much slower his swings were. I was pounding the nails in just as fast and he is generally a better nailer than me.

            I don't have an answer, but maybe someone has tested this in a lab already and has definitive answers. I searched Ti vs steel hammers and I found lots of claims that the Ti put more energy into the nail, but no scientific data.

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            • #36
              Perhaps a way of testing would be to use two identical weight hammers one Ti and the other steel --- then test them, there may very well be a difference but not how most would think --- which would be the elastic properties of the material used --- it may actually have to do with "polar moment" in which even though the weight distribution is identical the Ti hammer would have an overall larger exoskeleton effect, this will cause a difference in performance IF the nail is being hit slightly off center or if both hammers have inherent flaws with alignment, just like performance cars will differ in handling even though their weights and suspensions are basically identical and they both have a 50/50 weight distribution front and rear --- if one has all it's weight in the bumpers VS the other dead center in the cars mainframe, 50/50 is just the static measurements --- when dynamics enter the equation everything changes...

              get both cars "squirrel'y" in a turn and the one with all the weight at the ends is harder to recover, But, it took more effort to get it out of balance in the first place, Ideally - with automotive racing and control factors you want the car that's more predictable to recover, but "recovery" with a hammer is moot, what you would want with a hammer is stability from "change" of direction, therefor the Ti hammer of the same weight yet with the larger frame/exoskeleton might have an advantage of putting more energies into the nail do to it having the outer leverage to "hold it's trajectory" better...

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              • #37
                Originally posted by ed_h View Post
                Maybe I'm being dense, but do a thought experiment: compare a 15 oz steel hammer with a 15 oz titanium hammer. Arrange that the CG of the heads are in the same relationship to the identical handles.

                Same effort to pick up, same efforts to swing, same velocity and energy at impact. Without looking at the hammers, you couldn't tell them apart by how they swing.

                Ed
                I think this is the point exactly. When you are talking about two hammers of equal weight, then it comes down to stuff like balance, the elasticity of the different materials, and intangibles like the "feel" of the hammer, etc.

                On the other hand if you read the ad, the claim for the 16oz Ti hammer is this:

                "It's made of titanium, so while its head weighs only 15 ounces, it hits like a 28 ounce steel hammer."

                and

                "15oz Titanium head drives like a 28oz steel hammer"

                They are not comparing it to a similar weight steel hammer.

                My guess is that a 15 oz hammer hits pretty much like a 15oz hammer irrespective of the material the head is made out of, within reason of course. Yes, I know a hammer with a 15oz head made of wax or rubber won't work so well for driving nails, etc.

                They tout other features like replaceable milled faces and a magnetic nail starter, etc. No opinion on whether or not that makes it worth 300 bucks. I tend to think that physics and material cost aside, there is some level of "boutique item" effect going on here as well.

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                • #38
                  I think you guys over think this
                  "It's made of titanium, so while its head weighs only 15 ounces, it hits like a 28 ounce steel hammer."

                  and

                  "15oz Titanium head drives like a 28oz steel hammer"

                  A 15oz steel hammer will obviously have a smaller head and a smaller handle thickness wise. No matter what, it wont hit or feel like a 28oz hammer will to an experienced carpenter/framer. A hammer that has the same’ish dimensions but almost half the weight, will still swing and drive like the 28oz hammer. In my early twenties I briefly worked as a framer building track homes in Phoenix. We would go to industry events at tool houses and there would almost always be a nail driving competition. Like a proper dumb twenty year old, I used a heavy hammer and never got to close to the “old” guys swinging the lighter hammers at lightning speed.

                  whether that makes a hammer worth $300, idk, thats an expensive hammer

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                  • #39
                    [QUOTE=mickeyf;n1951926]On sale for only #279.99 Canadian! Regular $330.99!

                    [url]https://www.kmstools.com/-stiletto-15oz-tibone-milled-face-framing-hammer/QUOTE]

                    Right?! I dont get it maybe because I dont swing a hammer all day. Or I want to see, check it out.

                    Thats a lot of money for a hammer.. Odd thing is, its not out of line.

                    I did some looking for sales of this hammer or as close as to it I could get..

                    None of them were below $110, sold. They must have a value I cant see mainly because I dont use that tool..

                    Now I want one..... JR

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by mochinist View Post
                      I think you guys over think this
                      "It's made of titanium, so while its head weighs only 15 ounces, it hits like a 28 ounce steel hammer."

                      Like a proper dumb twenty year old, I used a heavy hammer and never got to close to the “old” guys swinging the lighter hammers at lightning speed.
                      Hmmmmmmmmm - well in a competition factor you do have to consider this, horsepower is the equation of both RPM's and Torque, so maybe the bigger hammers drove the nail in a little further each time but the smaller ones had way more "beats per minute" due to faster "recoil" -------- it all adds up as they say --- maybe?

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                      • #41
                        Titanium hammers have very little recoil compared to steel hammers, so they transfer energy to the nail a lot more efficiently, and they're easier on your arm.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by tomato coupe View Post
                          Titanium hammers have very little recoil compared to steel hammers, so they transfer energy to the nail a lot more efficiently, and they're easier on your arm.
                          So kinda like a dead blow hammer? yet the metal itself is very "springy" in fact it's actually used as spring material in certain instances, I think Ti's incredible for certain applications in fact the very best for some, but hammers? not convinced ------- yet...

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                          • #43
                            You guys are funny. Hammers now? You guys will argue the flatness of the Earth

                            I use a Senco framing gun. It will shoot 3-1/2" nails out no matter what is in front of the nail. The holes on the anchor straps? Not needed. It makes its own hole through the steel straps
                            .
                            I have hammered many nails with my old fashioned framing hammer. Its still my go to in the 260oz hammer size..

                            Ive had this one for 30+ years... JR

                            Thee wrench is a 22" long Craftsman made in the USA. JR

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                            • #44
                              That's one nasty lookin pillow lol

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by RB211 View Post
                                Yeah, I ain’t swinging a hammer all day. Paslode or screw gun. I like screws a hell of a lot more than nails.
                                Amen Brother! I hired a contractor that loved his framing nailer and so much of the work was crap, some 2x4s were like 1/4" out of flush. I love me construction screws for framing, 16 & 18 ga finish guns for trim though.
                                Location: Jersey City NJ USA

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