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Whoa! I thought $300 hammers were only available to the Military!

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  • #61
    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
    Well, the limit is a bit short of 100 mph. Fast enough for anyone, I;d think. That is not an estimate, that is the speed of an average fastball on its way to home plate.

    Granted, most of us are not pitchers. But that is pretty fast, and is as fast as largish numbers of people are documented as being able to move their arm. A fair answer to your question of "how fast?".

    Pitchers are specialized. But so are framing carpenters. I think the rule at many companies is "sink it in three hits max, or you're outta here".

    I'd give the benefit of the doubt to people who use hammers all day. There likely is not a lot that the rest of us can teach them. I can be sure they could "sink it in three" with any reasonable hammer. And they would know how to adjust the force of the hit by arm speed etc.

    AK, I've got plenty also. A half dozen or more inside in the shop, at least a dozen out in the shed in the "stupid drawer (hey, it's a drawer of hammers). And then there are a half dozen sledges up to a 15 lb. And 3 or 4 more by the anvil. That 15 lb will give you a workout.

    There is a hammer size for every job. And there is the right type. It's good to have the size and type you need, ball peen, straight peen, cross peen, london pattern, claw, tack, fencing, or roofing, etc. .
    Iv somehow gotten by with a mid size ball peen - a cheap ass framing hammer - a hand sledge and a full monster sledge that I converted one side to a maul,,,

    JT - as far as your analogy of "the limit" being 100mph and using the "fastball" as your guiding light, come on dude,,, this is why you get so much negatory feedback from people on the site,,, you cannot even compare the two --- for one, when's the last time you seen a guy with a framing hammer "spool up" his whole body - recoil to the point of almost pulling a shoulder out of joint with the hammer way behind his back - and then "let er rip" and if you actually have seen a display like that please call OSHA ,,,
    for seconds lets not forget the hammer is a "speed leverage devise" of sorts and theoretically could have a maximum speed WAY beyond that of a fastball --- if you don't believe that's true try driving a nail in with just holding a hammer's head and let me know how that works out for you --- yes you are allowed to go into full spastic contortions just like the pitcher...

    point being is somewhere in the middle lies what it called "THE TRUTH" and crazy speculation using things that are not even relevant on the subject matter should be left strictly to the people who like to hear themselves talk so they can get ridiculed for it...

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Lew Hartswick View Post

      If it's 15 Oz It doesn't matter what it's made of it has the Momentum of 15 Oz PERIOD. Now you MAY be able to swing it faster due to lighter weight and get the Velocity a bit higher but that takes more Energy from the "swinging arm" . So it's ALL HYPE!
      ...lew...
      I understand the basic physics behind it. What I was really addressing is this claim by the largest Ti hammer manufacturer. They have been making this claim for at least 2 decades.


      -----------------------------------------------------------------------
      The Physics of the Swinging Hammer Action


      This question had us turning to Joel Allen, Director of Innovation at Stiletto Titanium Tools for some input. He explained that the physics of titanium hammers vs steel ultimately comes down to energy transfer. In the motion of hammering, energy originates in your arm (particularly, your muscles & joints). This energy gets stored in the hammer’s head and is released upon impact with the nail.

      A titanium hammer harnesses a full 97% of the energy garnered from that hammer swing and transfers it directly to the nail. For comparison, a steel hammer transfers only 70% of that energy to the nail. If you do some quick math you may wonder where the 27% loss of energy went on the steel head hammer.


      For the most part, it gets transferred back to the user through the energy that is released in the recoil of the steel. Essentially, vibrations are sent through the hammer head, back down the handle, and into your arm. While some steel hammers have implemented some vibration-absorbing handle materials, at the end of the day, steel remains less efficient at transferring the strike energy to the nail.

      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      So they are saying that it vibrates less. I highly doubt that 30% of the energy goes back into the person swinging the steel hammer. That would be a huge amount of vibration. They don't tell you WHAT steel hammer they are comparing it to....probably the absolutely worst design steel hammer imaginable. They still, in the last sentence, insist that steel remains less efficient at transferring the strike energy to the nail. If that is true, I highly doubt that it is noticeable to the end user. I think that the hammer design is a more important factor. BTW, some of the Ti hammers that I saw had replaceable steel strike faces.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post

        Iv somehow gotten by with a mid size ball peen - a cheap ass framing hammer - a hand sledge and a full monster sledge that I converted one side to a maul,,,

        JT - as far as your analogy of "the limit" being 100mph and using the "fastball" as your guiding light, come on dude,,, this is why you get so much negatory feedback from people on the site,,, you cannot even compare the two --- for one, when's the last time you seen a guy with a framing hammer "spool up" his whole body - recoil to the point of almost pulling a shoulder out of joint with the hammer way behind his back - and then "let er rip" and if you actually have seen a display like that please call OSHA ,,,
        for seconds lets not forget the hammer is a "speed leverage devise" of sorts and theoretically could have a maximum speed WAY beyond that of a fastball --- if you don't believe that's true try driving a nail in with just holding a hammer's head and let me know how that works out for you --- yes you are allowed to go into full spastic contortions just like the pitcher...

        point being is somewhere in the middle lies what it called "THE TRUTH" and crazy speculation using things that are not even relevant on the subject matter should be left strictly to the people who like to hear themselves talk so they can get ridiculed for it...
        Boomer........ I think I mentioned the added "arm length", but discounted that off of the fact that we are not all pitchers, and as you say folks do not wind up that way with a hammer. Be surprising if most could get to half that, even with the longer lever (handle).

        But, point being that the 100 mph is still "the limit", which is all I claim. You've got a group of people who are trying their hardest to throw the ball fast (with control, of course) and that is the best they can do. OK, that's the limit a human can do.

        I reckon that still gives a lot of "headroom" over what the average framing carpenter does, even if he isn't pulled after 100 hits (pitches). So there is a lot of room for some higher speed hitting, in answer to whoever was complaining about faster movement being an issue.

        If one company has been selling the hammers for 2 decades, they must be worth the price to a lot of folks.

        As for folks not liking what I say, when have you seen me give a damn? You and I generally say what we know or can prove, and if folks cannot handle the truth, that's not my problem nor yours. I think we both do go a little over sometimes, but life's supposed to be fun.😉
        2730

        Keep eye on ball.
        Hashim Khan

        Everything not impossible is compulsory

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        • #64
          Originally posted by rickyb View Post
          Get over it guys. The Ti hammer has the laws of physics on its side. The advertisement doesn’t say how but it becomes apparent that that a lighter hammer will have a greater velocity when swung by the same persons arm that uses a 28 oz hammer. As was said, the energy delivered to the nail is 1/2 x mass x velocity squared. All you would need is a 33% increase in velocity of the Ti hammer to make the advertisement true.
          Would this be similar to those baseball players that take a bunch of practice swings with a weight on the end of their bat and then drop the weight and go up and hit one over the fence on the first swing?

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by tom_d View Post

            Would this be similar to those baseball players that take a bunch of practice swings with a weight on the end of their bat and then drop the weight and go up and hit one over the fence on the first swing?
            In a manner of speaking, yes. I made no assumption the the user had 28 oz conditioned arms, only that a 30% increase in velocity is plausible with the lighter hammer.

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            • #66
              another funny thing is that the product page says it's a 15 oz hammer head, but they list the weight as 2 pounds.... it "hits like a 28 oz hammer" because it IS a 28 oz hammer?
              Yes I know the hammer head is how you classify the hammer's weight, it's just funny

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Tillie's in a bottle View Post
                another funny thing is that the product page says it's a 15 oz hammer head, but they list the weight as 2 pounds.... it "hits like a 28 oz hammer" because it IS a 28 oz hammer?
                Yes I know the hammer head is how you classify the hammer's weight, it's just funny
                Greateye!

                That is their advertizing out.... Nailed it you did JR

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Tillie's in a bottle View Post
                  another funny thing is that the product page says it's a 15 oz hammer head, but they list the weight as 2 pounds.... it "hits like a 28 oz hammer" because it IS a 28 oz hammer?
                  Yes I know the hammer head is how you classify the hammer's weight, it's just funny
                  A 2 pound hammer isn't a 28oz hammer its 32oz. Or do you guys over there only have 14 oz to the pound?

                  Sorry, just feeling pedantic this morning.
                  'It may not always be the best policy to do what is best technically, but those responsible for policy can never form a right judgement without knowledge of what is right technically' - 'Dutch' Kindelberger

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                  • #69
                    yes that's right- jeez thats my sleepy math .

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Tillie's in a bottle View Post
                      yes that's right- jeez thats my sleepy math .
                      We just thought you were probably "British" and going off of some kind of "whitworth weight scale" lol

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        "Originally posted by Tillie's in a bottle View Post
                        another funny thing is that the product page says it's a 15 oz hammer head, but they list the weight as 2 pounds.... it "hits like a 28 oz hammer" because it IS a 28 oz hammer?
                        Yes I know the hammer head is how you classify the hammer's weight, it's just funny"

                        Make me put on my math glasses..

                        I see a 2oz differance according to the Advertizement. The Add is off, not the math.

                        Twp ounce difference according to my "Sleepy Math" like my accociate said is cool JR

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