Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Thinking of getting a MIG welder

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post

    I know Millers got one like that, it can run on either 220 or 120 it don't care. Works just as good either way. But it cost an arm and a leg. We had one at my old job for getting into tight spots. Its small enough to carry around, gun and all.
    I think the SP-125 that replaced my model had the dual voltage feature. The newer ones also changed to a selector switch with a limited number of heat settings, where mine is continually adjustable throughout the range, as is the wire speed adjustment. Newer ones don't weigh as much as mine either. Maybe they come from "overseas". When I bought mine I made a substantial investment in copper. That transformer is freakin' HEAVY. They didn't skimp on the price either. When all was said and done with the accessories; gas bottle, regulator, good supply of tips and some assortment of wire both flux and solid core, I was pushing $700 in 30+ years ago dollars. Well worth every penny though. I could have bought a Miller for the same money. Salesman said his cost was the same. He recommended the Lincoln as he was of the opinion that Lincoln made the better machine when it came to these simple transformer type welders, and that Miller had it hands down with the more complex machines that handled fancy TIG operations with the frequency adjustments, ramp up on heat, pulsing, etc.

    Comment


    • #32
      I have used all types of machines over the years. Technique can extend the range of any mig. Sheet metal - stutter the trigger to fill gaps. A large mig can do it if you pay attention to the puddle. Example small mig on thick steel. I had to weld a 3/4 threaded lifting lug on a 400lb 1/2 thick elbow. Only welder available on job was a 140 miller mig on 120v plug. Cranked it up to max for .030 solid wire. Started with circular motion to create a large hot puddle. Laid in a fillet with multi passes. I inspected the back side of the steel and found the metal sagged a bit for good penetration/fusion. I had full confidence in rigging/lifting the part over my head.

      Comment


      • #33
        I rely on owner feedback of specific machines for my welder purchases. Some older big machine that someone picked up at a yard sale, probably has nothing to do with the welding performance of a modern machine. Mine is Hobart 190, a 240v machine and I use it for real thin sheet and have done 1/2 a time or two with two passes. I weld import sheet metal often, last night and todays projects and that stuff is real thin. It has more to do with the number of taps, if not infinite. The old Hobart models before mine had only 4 taps and they were known for big gaps in the range. Mine has more and does fine thick or thin. There are some old duds out there too, that's why they get stuck out in yard sales for someone to pick up cheap, but that does not apply to all machines that's for sure. Sounded like the OP had his mind made up before he even posted, but really a 240v machine if properly designed can do it all.

        Comment


        • #34
          As far as bigger machines on sheet metal, it must be some machines that aren’t happy.

          I run a Miller 252 at work, there is no issue with 16ga and .035 wire with that machine. No idea how it would be on 20-22ga. definitely would need some thinner wire.

          Comment


          • #35
            While bigger is not necessarily better the 'better' machines have superior arc control, infinite adjustment for voltage and wire speed and will work equally well with thick or thin materials provided correct settings and wire are used. Personally, I'll never go back to fixed transformer taps. Ever.
            Southwest Utah

            Comment


            • #36
              I always hear about the "just do two passes" routine, and it really is not that simple.

              The machine has to be a minimum size to get away with that, or you will have to preheat the dickens out of the parts. Having used a "90A" machine (not mine), I do not think there is any way to get it to do 1/4" plate unless you preheat, and maybe not then.

              That size just does not have the power to produce a puddle and move it along at that thickness before it duty cycles off. It will "almost" produce a puddle the first try, then cycles off well before getting there after that. Seems as if it would need to have a pretty hot pre-heat to let it do two plates of 1/4". If you just need to stick a small block of 1/4" down, it probably will do that cold.

              I am not sure of the minimum, I know 220A will do it easily MIG, and so will 175A with stick. Maybe 140 will do it MIG, but it seems to be pushing the "1 mil per amp" rule pretty hard.
              2730

              Keep eye on ball.
              Hashim Khan

              Everything not impossible is compulsory

              Comment


              • #37
                The problem is not entirely 'amps'. As you mention, Jerry, the duty cycle on these 120V machines is extremely short and if for some reason you beat that, the supply breaker will go next. People continue to say 'that's all I need' and then eventually try to run a 3' bead on a tank, etc. Additionally, these mini-welders usually 'fade' as the internals warm up so whatever performance you start with will not be sustained with prolonged use at any given time.
                Southwest Utah

                Comment


                • #38
                  Yes... the "cycling off" was duty cycle limited shutoff, based on temperature. It would have to cool down before it would do any welding.

                  As it heats up, resistance of the wire increases, so the current probably decreases somewhat. That clearly is not a change in a helpful direction. the reduction in amps also has some increase of dissipation per amp due to resistance. That is calculable, but I don't feel like deriving it right now, so I am not sure if it is a "win" or a "loss" as far as duty cycle.

                  The one I used was remarkably stupidly made. It was a Lincoln. When it duty cycled off, THE FAN WAS ALSO TURNED OFF!

                  Talk about stupid.... the fan would cool it down so that it would not be off so long. But it got shut off by the temp sensor.

                  The other hidden gotcha in those units is that the overtemp sensor will turn back on way above room temperature. So, the next time it starts, it has a lot less heating before it shuts off again.

                  If it went 2 minutes the first time, it may go 45 seconds the second and all future tries, until you let it cool down all the way. So you get one shot at it, with a long cool-down before you can give it another meaningful try.

                  I do not know what thermal shutoff type is used. Those shutoffs differ in how many degrees they must cool before they will re-close. That is often 20 to 40 C. But, since the shutoff is likely up near 100C, that cool-down time does not get you back to square one on heating, the unit is pre-heated still, and will run a much shorter time.
                  2730

                  Keep eye on ball.
                  Hashim Khan

                  Everything not impossible is compulsory

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Can't remember the last time I used something with fixed taps, or less than 035 wire.
                    I think the 120-V MIG's are ideal for auto work because it tends to be all short beads, stop-start welding.
                    Did my buddy's entire truck cab with one (Hobart 140) no issues at all.
                    You never actually run into the duty cycle except with the very cheapest machines.
                    Everlast isn't one of those, their quality is good for the price and they aren't exactly an unknown startup any more.
                    25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                      I always hear about the "just do two passes" routine, and it really is not that simple.

                      The machine has to be a minimum size to get away with that, or you will have to preheat the dickens out of the parts. Having used a "90A" machine (not mine), I do not think there is any way to get it to do 1/4" plate unless you preheat, and maybe not then.

                      That size just does not have the power to produce a puddle and move it along at that thickness before it duty cycles off. It will "almost" produce a puddle the first try, then cycles off well before getting there after that. Seems as if it would need to have a pretty hot pre-heat to let it do two plates of 1/4". If you just need to stick a small block of 1/4" down, it probably will do that cold.

                      I am not sure of the minimum, I know 220A will do it easily MIG, and so will 175A with stick. Maybe 140 will do it MIG, but it seems to be pushing the "1 mil per amp" rule pretty hard.
                      Yeah, agreed. My 135 amp Miller might weld ¼" at the max, but that would be with pre-machined chamfers, dual-shield and probably lots of preheat.

                      I'd either stick to ⅛" max for that class MIG and use stick for the heavier stuff or buy a more capable MIG machine.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I’m starting to wonder if I should get the 200amp 120/240v of that Everlast welder for 200ish more, just in case I want to weld up a Go Kart frame or something without resorting to TIG.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          RB211: My Hobart 170 runs on 240V and works great for what I do. One of the pluses of Mig is smooth welds with no undercut. As you know , also good for thin stuff. The only thing I would do if replacing my Hobart is to consider one of the Miller's. Take a look at the duty cycle of whatever you are buying. Good luck.
                          Sarge41

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by RB211 View Post
                            I’m starting to wonder if I should get the 200amp 120/240v of that Everlast welder for 200ish more, just in case I want to weld up a Go Kart frame or something without resorting to TIG.
                            Huh? Back when I bought my first TiG, it was specifically to build a motorcycle frame
                            so as not burn through the tubing with MiG. But different folks use different tools I guess.

                            -Doozer
                            DZER

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Doozer View Post

                              Huh? Back when I bought my first TiG, it was specifically to build a motorcycle frame
                              so as not burn through the tubing with MiG. But different folks use different tools I guess.

                              -Doozer
                              I’m more after the dual voltage feature, but you’re right, TIG is good for that.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by RB211 View Post
                                I’m more after the dual voltage feature, but you’re right, TIG is good for that.
                                The machine featured in the original post is like mine, in that it has the advantage of being portable with the 120V input. That was my primary reason with going with my SP100. If you don't always need that feature, or have ready access to the heavier supply power wherever you're going to be working, then it never hurts to have the extra capacity. Best of both worlds with the dual voltage. If you're going to go with the bigger machine then I suppose the next question would be why stop there. Is there anything with even larger capacity available that still stays close to budget? I'm not an expert with the Everlast brand, but they appear to have a good product line, with lots of good choices. Can all your needs be combined into one power supply?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X