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  • #16
    Originally posted by reggie_obe View Post
    Some reach out for help to find those around them are not listening.
    More often they reach out, but not directly. You would in many cases have to interpret what they say in order to understand. Agree, so many folks do not get help, and one reason is they do not ask for it directly because they just cannot bring themselves to do that. They may hint, talk around the point, and hope that they get a response, but often, the hints are too indirect and hard to understand correctly.

    It is only after the event that one understands what was being said. And that can lead to guilt. One really should not feel guilt in such a case, because you often have no idea what is behind what is actually said.

    And too many feel that nobody can help. So they don't ask directly, and that can also be a reason for obscure hints but no direct talk.

    I've lost a cousin and a brother-in-law that way. Still don't know why, and never will.
    2730

    Keep eye on ball.
    Hashim Khan

    Everything not impossible is compulsory

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Fasttrack View Post

      I'm glad your wife was there for you in your time of need and that you are still here to post on the forum!

      Mental illness runs in my family and I know a little something of what it's like to be in both positions - inside looking out and outside looking in, so to speak. So while I definitely agree that it's true we sometimes miss the signs or don't recognize it when someone is reaching out for help, I'm just not sure that's what Tom S. needs to hear right now, especially since we don't know (and don't need to know) the details. We can't undo what's been done but we can try and support those who are left behind. Just my $0.02 - not trying to start an argument, just want to offer support.
      I agree with you. I think the people here are trying to help in their own way but most don't have to deal with this so it is out of their depth. All we can do id give support.

      P.S. in high school one my teachers quoted a fact that about 10% of us would develop mental health issues. Who knew it would be me.

      HA HA Their coming to take me away ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!😵
      The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

      Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

      Southwestern Ontario. Canada

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      • #18
        Sorry to hear Tom, I think the hardest thing is knowing all the pain and anguish the person went through to get to the point of no return... after that then its all about feeling empathy for those who knew him/her... just sucks....

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        • #19
          Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

          More often they reach out, but not directly. You would in many cases have to interpret what they say in order to understand. Agree, so many folks do not get help, and one reason is they do not ask for it directly because they just cannot bring themselves to do that. They may hint, talk around the point, and hope that they get a response, but often, the hints are too indirect and hard to understand correctly.

          It is only after the event that one understands what was being said. And that can lead to guilt. One really should not feel guilt in such a case, because you often have no idea what is behind what is actually said.

          And too many feel that nobody can help. So they don't ask directly, and that can also be a reason for obscure hints but no direct talk.

          I've lost a cousin and a brother-in-law that way. Still don't know why, and never will.
          It's a near impossible task, hindsight is of course always 20/20 but with all the variables before hand there's no clear way to accurately predict the sometimes inevitable,

          also have to consider some people have learned to "get attention" with statements or behavior, and yeah they ruin it for others who are in serious trouble --- like the boy who cried wolf too many times... people do need to try and pay attention, but if they jump at every whim they can also enable others who take advantage of this... again a near impossible task sometimes - yet other times the writings on the wall for years....

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          • #20
            Originally posted by reggie_obe View Post

            Hardly.
            Good example right here on HSM. One member was telling of the pressure he was under and relating some of the problems in his life. Another, a drunken douche,, "shouted" don't tell me man, I got my own issues, don't care to hear about yours.
            So you come on here --- No empathy for Tom, in fact your first post almost sounds like your putting the blame on him and in fact sounds like he took it that way in his post #5 back to you, then you start a rant that might get his thread locked when he's reaching out for help himself --- think I know who the douche is pal,


            and while your at it --- go back and read how the" Example" of the OP started off and the first reply and keep in mind how that can effect someone else...

            I would have had absolute compassion for LN if he's not started out his thread in such a lack of empathy manner...

            Iv had normal up's and downs my whole life, but recently have had steady depression (over two months now) after a certain "decision and action" I made, that caused me more pain then iv ever had to deal with in my life, No - I don't need to be coddled for it - I will bulldoze my way through like I usually do, but I also won't sit idle when some people think there's an easy answer to all of this - there's not - there's consequences on both sides...
            Last edited by A.K. Boomer; 07-28-2021, 10:46 AM.

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            • #21
              An insidious trait of depression is that you can't believe anything or anyone can help, so why would you think to ask? When, in the midst of depression, everything is ****e, nothing you try or do will work, you'll never be happy again in this lifetime and can't even remember quite what that was like, the suggestion to go to a counselor for help is like an idiotic suggestion. Yes, others can help but it's a process of getting them scraped off the bottom so they're willing to take even the first step.

              I had a friend who had made a previous suicide attempt, was hospitalized and not doing well, and asked for my help researching suicide methods since his last one hadn't worked. We get handed some tough situations, but be the best human being you possibly can when others need help.
              .
              "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

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              • #22
                Suicide was always something I could not understand. Was, not is. My wife had pancreatic cancer for a year and passed in February. I thought we had talked everything out and I was fully prepared. I was fully wrong.

                I found myself thinking I could finally understand why somebody might consider ending their own life. Don't believe I was considering it, but I'm not 100% sure. Certainly I could,for the first time in my life, understand it. Not sure anybody could do or say anything to help. My shop sits untouched. My motorcycles also untouched. The only joy in life seems to be my new Fiat Spider. I'm not asking for help, I believe I'm ok. Just saying I can understand how it can happen and I have no idea hoe to help.

                Mike

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                • #23
                  MikeL46 Sorry to hear about the loss of your wife and the long hard road. I'm glad you're okay and hanging on so far. Talking to a competent counselor can help think and work through things. The way we feel (angry, depressed, frustrated) is often the result of things we're telling ourselves, even subconsciously and a counselor can help one look at those thoughts and decide if they're really true/rational/whatever. Think road rage. The anger at some other idiot might be founded on 1) "By god, he can't do that to me." and 2) he just pulled in blocking my exit. First, he probably shouldn't have made that move but idiots can do anything because they're basically thoughtless and irrational. So you get to FURIOUS without even thinking about it,.

                  Helping someone you suspect is suicidal can start with just being there. You can't tell them you understand what they're feeling and going through, but you can assure them that you can be a companion in whatever way may help. Then you can ask them a little more about what they're thinking and considering. Then try to persuade them one small step away from the brink. "Maybe we can get through today, and then see if tomorrow might have some more options." And then see if further persuasion might get them to a professional for help. You can't criticize yourself for an outcome you can't control, but you can criticize yourself for not trying.
                  .
                  "People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time they will pick themselves up and carry on" : Winston Churchill

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                  • #24
                    Suicide is foolish. I had a bad year in 2014 where I lost my best friend/girlfriend and then six months later had a coworker at effectively a three person company kill himself the day after we went on a long business travel thing.

                    I saw a therapist for both and it helped immensely in processing and unpacking the bizarre range of emotions that will follow an events like that happening in one's life.
                    -paul

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                    • #25
                      Tom,. sorry to hear of your loss, a lousy thing to go through
                      Last edited by Mcgyver; 07-28-2021, 01:29 PM.
                      in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

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                      • #26
                        Pressure and anxiety are all around us.
                        Some people are wired to not let that effect them.
                        Some people let it eat them up.
                        I think a good healthy balance is like 80% not effect / 20% eat them up.
                        But many times the percentages of concern are reversed, and people
                        keep it inside and don't know how to make a change.
                        Sorry to hear about your friend.

                        -D
                        DZER

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by MikeL46 View Post
                          Suicide was always something I could not understand. Was, not is. My wife had pancreatic cancer for a year and passed in February. I thought we had talked everything out and I was fully prepared. I was fully wrong.

                          I found myself thinking I could finally understand why somebody might consider ending their own life. Don't believe I was considering it, but I'm not 100% sure. Certainly I could,for the first time in my life, understand it. Not sure anybody could do or say anything to help. My shop sits untouched. My motorcycles also untouched. The only joy in life seems to be my new Fiat Spider. I'm not asking for help, I believe I'm ok. Just saying I can understand how it can happen and I have no idea hoe to help.

                          Mike
                          Mike, my Dad was in a similar place after my mum died suddenly from a brain haemorhage. Sank into a deep depression and was thinking about killing himself. My brother convinced him to see a doctor, so now he's on meds that help. That and a dog - mans best friend for a reason!

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                          • #28
                            People don't understand how someone could off themselves but they don't understand how bad deep depression can be. I was considering killing myself when I had depression, not because I thought it was a good idea or would help. When you are that far down the rabbit hole your not thinking straight, your in such misery that anything seems better and you don't consider the end result as bad. IE: death is better then this. This is where you are lucky if someone sees what is happening and gets you help. Some are not so lucky. It isn't anyone's fault, it just happens but the survivors have to live with it.
                            The shortest distance between two points is a circle of infinite diameter.

                            Bluewater Model Engineering Society at https://sites.google.com/site/bluewatermes/

                            Southwestern Ontario. Canada

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                            • #29
                              I have a very unique friend that iv learned allot from --- I won't go into detail about his situation early on in life but will just say it would be enough to break anyone yet he's actually one of the strongest guys I know, he's also got a very unique way of dealing with this topic in fact he brings it up all the time and jokes about it - this is not to make light of any of the anguish any of us feel or go through about it but it's his way of coping and iv actually found it somewhat helpful -------------

                              things can look so dismal to me sometimes and then I think of him and just start laughing, he's found a way to cope, from thinking he can possibly jump off of bridges and survive the fall by wearing "finger mittens" and rapidly flapping his arms,

                              he's also got plans for a three legged breakaway chair that iv actually made some revisions too and showed him and made him laugh back...

                              Part of the enigma/stigma of this whole debacle is nobody wants to talk about it - it makes everyone uncomfortable, sometimes when im really low i'll think of him always wearing it on his sleeve lol it makes me realize im not alone in this... sometimes he hint's that he'd like to see me wear the finger mittens and make an attempt at a launch and "safe landing" so he can get it all on video lol that's an entirely different thing. crazy guy but life is such that it really does help to be a little insane...

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by loose nut View Post
                                People don't understand how someone could off themselves but they don't understand how bad deep depression can be. I was considering killing myself when I had depression, not because I thought it was a good idea or would help. When you are that far down the rabbit hole your not thinking straight, your in such misery that anything seems better and you don't consider the end result as bad. IE: death is better then this. .
                                I can understand how and see that in a way it might seem a rational decision for someone. Thing is, none of us are islands: we have a share a responsibility for those around us. Such an act doesn't factor in how awfully devastating it is to everyone around them, it can change and ruin the lives of those you care about. I think there would be a lot less holding one on the side of thinking straight if they had no one, although I've seen it happen also with successful family men. I guess you never know whats going on in someones head
                                in Toronto Ontario - where are you?

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