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  • eKretz
    replied
    Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post

    you are not going to achieve the localized temperatures high enough to risk carbon absorption with hard sharping. That's why all these steel/diamond sharping things are slow speed. As I mentioned, the localized temp where one particle meets another is almost entirely a function of the relative speed of the two
    Yes, generally if you're not throwing sparks you're going to wear the diamond fairly slowly. The other risk is pushing too hard and ripping the diamond loose. Don't do that. You can actually use a piece of mild steel in a vise or other rigid holding method to true a resin bond diamond wheel, so there's that...

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  • A.K. Boomer
    replied
    Originally posted by eKretz View Post

    Yeah that bolded bit was kind of my point. The Ukrainian stuff is pretty good, no garbage. And until the average consumer that shops at WalMart, Target etc. starts pushing for stores to sell more U.S. made stuff there will be no change. And they won't do that because they don't want to pay that little bit more. Don't get me wrong, I would be happy to, but I am not the one who decides. You can spout off about it all you want with no result. People at our level will make no difference. It's the mass consumer that drives the market. In the meantime, U.S. made shop tooling is generally prohibitively expensive unless you own a business that's making money hand over foot. Until that manufacturing base comes back and they can produce in volume that will not change.

    As regards your red quoted text, maybe it would be better if politics were kept out of things like this. Business decisions should not be decided by politics. Personally I'm sick and tired of the whole rigamarole. We need to revamp the system when it's at the point where nothing gets done and it's completely filled with people who do nothing but constant sniping at and bickering with each other. None of these people act like adults who know how to work with each other to get things done and make compromises. It is utterly disgusting and frankly quite embarrassing. These people are supposed to be the best of us? Sorry, not in my opinion. Politicking can go spit.
    As futile as it all seems sometimes I still like to make an effort at it - I have been doing pretty good with it lately, just by paying attention and reading labels and stuff and also some blind luck with a few on line orders that surprised me,,, but 3 days ago even though I drove around town to try and find an alternative it was a no go --- so about 40 bucks went to U know who and yeah it still chaps my hide,,, there were alternatives if I went on-line with it and added about another hundred to the 40, I cannot afford to do that -

    then there's people who can and still have no choice just because nobody else is even building the particular product and there's no other choice,,,

    But - I still will at least try my best most of the time - more then iv ever been, not a holy'er than thou thing as I know you and most are probably doing the same,

    just something that I think helps when we all remind each other once in awhile, I still recycle everything I can - even though when you know what's going on behind the recycling scene also seems futile... I still will always own a fairly efficient car, current one rated at 70mpg highway, is all of what im doing going to save the planet and country - no - probably not if everyone did,,, we got so many fish to fry now that I believe it's a done deal, but just can't toss my hands up in the air and say "ahh what's the use"

    The Ukrainian product you mention sounds better then the other two choices , had you mentioned Ukrainian in that initial post I commented on there would not have been a comment from me - but now were getting back to political reasons...

    It's all becoming an increasingly bigger mess to sort through and in a constant state of flux.,..

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  • Mcgyver
    replied
    Originally posted by BCRider View Post
    But perhaps aiding with spreading the heat around to avoid hot spots is a key secondary (or primary?) effect.
    you are not going to achieve the localized temperatures high enough to risk carbon absorption with hand sharping. That's why all these steel/diamond sharping things are slow speed. As I mentioned, the localized temp where one particle meets another is almost entirely a function of the relative speed of the two
    Last edited by Mcgyver; 08-26-2021, 08:38 PM.

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  • eKretz
    replied
    Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post

    Pretty much used to think like how your describing --- and others had the foresight to "correct me on it" if anything in the past year or two has not slapped us in the face by now then I don't know what will --- yes it does matter where the buck stops... I could give a ratz arss if you like to hear that or not,,,
    and it's near impossible to get away from esp. with one of the examples mentioned...

    as far as it being political though, if self preservation turns political in your mind then so be it... heck in that respect everythings political, skippy peanut butters political as is hankook tires and the bobby pins your grandma was using over 40 years ago... get over it,

    all's im mentioning is for me it's worth making an effort... and as far as hitting the $hit bin the second you receive it nobody has a better track record for that than the first example given...
    Yeah that bolded bit was kind of my point. The Ukrainian stuff is pretty good, no garbage. And until the average consumer that shops at WalMart, Target etc. starts pushing for stores to sell more U.S. made stuff there will be no change. And they won't do that because they don't want to pay that little bit more. Don't get me wrong, I would be happy to, but I am not the one who decides. You can spout off about it all you want with no result. People at our level will make no difference. It's the mass consumer that drives the market. In the meantime, U.S. made shop tooling is generally prohibitively expensive unless you own a business that's making money hand over foot. Until that manufacturing base comes back and they can produce in volume that will not change.

    As regards your red quoted text, maybe it would be better if politics were kept out of things like this. Business decisions should not be decided by politics. Personally I'm sick and tired of the whole rigamarole. We need to revamp the system when it's at the point where nothing gets done and it's completely filled with people who do nothing but constant sniping at and bickering with each other. None of these people act like adults who know how to work with each other to get things done and make compromises. It is utterly disgusting and frankly quite embarrassing. These people are supposed to be the best of us? Sorry, not in my opinion. Politicking can go spit.

    Leave a comment:


  • BCRider
    replied
    Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post
    Aren't diamond "stones" used for hand sharpening knife blades? Doesn't that mean that you can use diamond on steel if you keep the temperature down to the point where you are not burning the diamond (which is just a form of carbon)?

    Either use water to keep the temperature low or use a slow speed. Or both.

    Or am I completely wrong on this?
    You're very correct on this Paul. The craze these days for sharpening wood working hand tools (and knives) has shifted somewhat from water stones over to sharpening stone sized diamond plates in various grit numbers.

    They are typically used wet. But any references to using them wet has focused on flushing the swarf away so the plates don't plug up. But perhaps aiding with spreading the heat around to avoid hot spots is a key secondary (or primary?) effect.

    Leave a comment:


  • A.K. Boomer
    replied
    Originally posted by eKretz View Post

    I support whoever makes decent product that I don't have to worry about needing to chuck in the trash bin when it arrives. I don't care where it comes from for the most part. I care that it works. You sure like to rant a lot... Not sure exactly why you would care what anyone else uses or doesn't. This kind of attitude is what makes politics such a pain in the arse. Don't like those either.
    Pretty much used to think like how your describing --- and others had the foresight to "correct me on it" if anything in the past year or two has not slapped us in the face by now then I don't know what will --- yes it does matter where the buck stops... I could give a ratz arss if you like to hear that or not,,,
    and it's near impossible to get away from esp. with one of the examples mentioned...

    as far as it being political though, if self preservation turns political in your mind then so be it... heck in that respect everythings political, skippy peanut butters political as is hankook tires and the bobby pins your grandma was using over 40 years ago... get over it,

    all's im mentioning is for me it's worth making an effort... and as far as hitting the $hit bin the second you receive it nobody has a better track record for that than the first example given...

    Leave a comment:


  • elf
    replied
    Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post

    a 3000 grit wheel? I'm talking grinding as in a cup wheel on a tool grinder, not those pads for the slow turn things. If so, first question, why, 150 puts a mirror like finish on, and 2nd, where do you get them? I looked in a few tool catalogues, nothing over 220.
    Flat lapping disks. I suspect the tool surface finish required to cut wood cleanly may need to be much better than for metal
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  • Mcgyver
    replied
    Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post

    Could I get away with just a CBN for both carbide and steel at a slow RPM?
    I've not done it but apparently it can work, just that the CBN does not work as well cutting the carbide as diamond. afaik no need to go slowly, CBN is ideal for steel

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  • Rich Carlstedt
    replied
    Yes, use water if at all possible to help the diamond wheel and work piece stay clean and cool
    We added a small amount of liquid soap to make the water wetter and stay on the wheel ( if possible)
    Not a bad idea to have a vacuum system take away the carbide particles
    Rich

    Leave a comment:


  • eKretz
    replied
    Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post

    Right - because if you can't give your money to china then of course the next place to support is of course russia... it's all making perfect sense now...
    I support whoever makes decent product that I don't have to worry about needing to chuck in the trash bin when it arrives. I don't care where it comes from for the most part. I care that it works. You sure like to rant a lot... Not sure exactly why you would care what anyone else uses or doesn't. This kind of attitude is what makes politics such a pain in the arse. Don't like those either.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mcgyver
    replied
    Originally posted by elf View Post

    I think Doozer has it right. I'm surprised most of you think 150 grit will give a good enough surface. I use 3000 to finish.
    a 3000 grit wheel? I'm talking grinding as in a cup wheel on a tool grinder, not those pads for the slow turn things. If so, first question, why, 150 puts a mirror like finish on, and 2nd, where do you get them? I looked in a few tool catalogues, nothing over 220.
    Last edited by Mcgyver; 08-25-2021, 05:29 PM.

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  • nickel-city-fab
    replied
    Originally posted by Mcgyver View Post
    Slowing way down will.....or better yet, get the right tool for the job - a CBN wheel. Do use a diamond on carbide.

    Brazed tools? What's that? j/j. I might try to under cut the steel on a regular wheel then use the diamond wheel, or more likely just have it with the diamond and loose a bit of wheel life. No way would I use the green wheels, too rough an edge
    Could I get away with just a CBN for both carbide and steel at a slow RPM? Using a spray bottle for cooling.
    Yeah, I got a deal on a dozen AR-style brazed bits a while back, was thinking to grind them into whatever special shape.
    Also started saving my old inserts.

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  • Mcgyver
    replied
    Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post
    Thanks for the heads-up, I really didn't know. I've been wanting to try a diamond wheel for a while now, but i have absolutely zero knowledge or experience with them.
    ok, the whole diamond and steel comes from the fact that the local temperature reached can cause the diamond (carbon) to be absorbed by the steel. When the only options were very expensive diamond wheels, this mattered. John Stevenson (can't believe its been almost 4 years since he passed) claimed he used cheapo diamond wheels on steel for ages and they still worked...and if you weren't spending a ton on them what did it matter if they wore a tiny bit on steel? That's the why on diamond and steel, and also the why the wind maybe taken out of the sail a bit on "don't" position.

    The temps we are talking about is where a microscopic bit of diamond collides with a bit of work. That temperature is almost entirely depended on the relative speed and coolant or water will do about nothing to change it. Coolant does stop heat build up, flushed chips away, keeps particles out of the air (but adds others) keeps the wheel clean, lubricates where there is friction etc...I wouldn't want to grind anything without coolant its just so much better with.....but if the diamond absorption while grinding steel (at whatever rate) is your concern, coolant won't stop it. Slowing way down will.....or better yet, get the right tool for the job - a CBN wheel. Do use a diamond on carbide.

    Brazed tools? What's that? j/j. I might try to under cut the steel on a regular wheel then use the diamond wheel, or more likely just have it with the diamond and loose a bit of wheel life. No way would I use the green wheels, too rough an edge
    Last edited by Mcgyver; 08-25-2021, 05:21 PM.

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  • nickel-city-fab
    replied
    Thanks for the heads-up, I really didn't know. I've been wanting to try a diamond wheel for a while now, but i have absolutely zero knowledge or experience with them.

    Originally posted by Paul Alciatore View Post

    Either use water to keep the temperature low or use a slow speed. Or both.

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  • dalee100
    replied
    Originally posted by Bob Engelhardt View Post
    I have a cheap 4" resin bonded cup wheel like this:
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    The resin looks to be about 1/4" thick - are there diamonds throughout that thickness? If so, how are new diamonds exposed? I.e., how is the wheel dressed? If not, I guess that there's no telling how deep the diamonds actually are, given that it's a cheap wheel.
    Yeah, the diamond should be mixed evenly through out the resin. I think the manufacturing process is akin to mixing chocolate chips through cookie dough. You can go light on the amount of chips you put in, but it will tend to be mixed more or less evenly in suspension. Better and more expensive wheels will note the concentration of diamond in the wheel also. CCC wheels, can be anybody's guess.

    When I switched us to the resin bonded diamond wheel, we did try to dress them at first. We would use broken carbide endmills. But because the wheels are so light, we just kind of stopped bothering to dress them. Vibration was of no issue with the Darax.

    If the wheel runs smooth, as you grind with them, you can see tiny sparkles of diamond in the dust as the wheel slowly breaks down.

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