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Phase O Matic Parts for 1200

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  • Phase O Matic Parts for 1200

    My Phase O mitic let the magic blue smoke out over the weekend.

    I sourced the Caps and the relays.

    Cap https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Relay from Mrsupply


    here is my problem, there are two resisters I cannot Identify or read. both look to have been hot.

    The first looks burnt but It lloks like 10W??RT the other is 7.5KOlms J.



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    Any help?

  • #2
    Replace it with a VFD!
    Peter
    Grantham, New Hampshire

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by CPeter View Post
      Replace it with a VFD!
      Peter
      This isn't a viable solution for everyone. :/
      21" Royersford Excelsior CamelBack Drillpress Restoration
      1943 Sidney 16x54 Lathe Restoration

      Comment


      • #4
        Have you measured the burned resistor?
        Southwest Utah

        Comment


        • #5
          lil' bit of googlefooing found a thread on PM about bleed resistors (to stop the relay chattering?)
          https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...99/index2.html

          going by the labels and what other people have described, my guess would be a 10W 300 500 or 900ohm resistor. Maybe some funky off angle squinting at the resistor might narrow it down some

          Comment


          • #6
            I am thinking about the VFD now. It is a 10hp motor. The only load on the motor during spin up is the BAP (Big Ass Pulley). Facebook Market place has a some no name VFDs. I was looking at those last night. 10HP VFD runs $229. Are they like rotor phase converter that you have to oversize them by 30-50%? Or will a 10HP VFD Power a 10HP motor. I also found a 20 HP rotary (used) on line. Bit pricy but it would power the shop if I can get enough power to out to the shop to spin it. I might have to put bigger wires in the ground.

            So the open questions:
            1. Will a 10HP VFD Power a 10HP motor?
            2. VFD size to motor size requirement?
            3. Is it time to break out the wire gauge chart to distance to see if I have to change wiring?
            4. Find a hobby that doesn't require 3 phase power? (not going to happen)

            Comment


            • #7
              What is it that you can't read on the two resistors ? The markings look OK in the pic.

              I would try Digikey or Mouser.

              I would also suggest to go with a VFD and be up an running. You can try and repair the converter any time, but once you use the VFD you won't want to go back to the converter.

              JL....................

              Comment


              • #8
                Those suggesting "a VFD" may be forgetting a few things.

                1) He may be running several machines from the RPC. That makes "a VFD" become "many VFDs".

                2) Even if it is just one machine, the entire control system may have to be ripped out and changed.

                3) If there is more than one motor, that is another issue. It may not be practical to vary the speed on both/all motors at once.
                2730

                Keep eye on ball.
                Hashim Khan

                Everything not impossible is compulsory

                Comment


                • #9
                  POM Phase O Matic
                  RPC Rotary Phase Converter
                  VFD Variable Phase Drive

                  I do have mutable machines. My Bridge Port is on a small POM 2ph, my Grinders share a 5HP RPC. This mill has a 10HP motor. To support this I need a 15-20 hp RPC, the cheapest I have found is $1300 and it looks like its been stored out in a field.

                  VFD $200-$300 for HP per machine
                  20 HP RPC $1200-$1500 but I could get rid of the rest of the shop.
                  POM I picked up this one used for $100 used [and there is my problem]

                  So will a 10HP VFD spin up the 10HP motor? I don't need the speed control. So ramp up and down is nice but once on speed, I would most likely use the setting on it.

                  The other plus of a VFD is I can get rid of the old starter, fuses, heaters, and transformers.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    What does Phase o Matic say about parts ?
                    VFD sounds like gadgetcollector futzing about stuff.. i know they have their use , but a coming with a book on how to set it up to me sound complicated.
                    meanwhile my RPC seems fine.
                    i used a buddies lathe with VFD, because it is silent, its easy to forget to turn it off.,

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by outlawspeeder View Post
                      I am thinking about the VFD now. It is a 10hp motor. The only load on the motor during spin up is the BAP (Big Ass Pulley). Facebook Market place has a some no name VFDs. I was looking at those last night. 10HP VFD runs $229. Are they like rotor phase converter that you have to oversize them by 30-50%? Or will a 10HP VFD Power a 10HP motor. I also found a 20 HP rotary (used) on line. Bit pricy but it would power the shop if I can get enough power to out to the shop to spin it. I might have to put bigger wires in the ground.

                      So the open questions:
                      1. Will a 10HP VFD Power a 10HP motor?
                      2. VFD size to motor size requirement?
                      3. Is it time to break out the wire gauge chart to distance to see if I have to change wiring?
                      4. Find a hobby that doesn't require 3 phase power? (not going to happen)
                      Something to remember about a VFD is that most can deal with a really BAP by ramping up to speed slowly. They don't need to go from zero to ferocious in half a revolution while simultaneously dimming even the lights next door. Once at speed a flywheel is your friend.
                      Last edited by tom_d; 09-15-2021, 09:39 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by outlawspeeder View Post
                        My Phase O mitic let the magic blue smoke out over the weekend.

                        I sourced the Caps and the relays.

                        Cap https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
                        Relay from Mrsupply


                        here is my problem, there are two resisters I cannot Identify or read. both look to have been hot.

                        The first looks burnt but It lloks like 10W??RT the other is 7.5KOlms J.



                        Click image for larger version

Name:	20210912_112608_resized.jpg
Views:	285
Size:	568.6 KB
ID:	1961321 Click image for larger version

Name:	20210912_112557_resized.jpg
Views:	275
Size:	577.0 KB
ID:	1961322

                        Any help?
                        I like that you are rebuilding.

                        It may help. I gain much knowledge from Fitch. Downloaded more paper than needed. Great Man..

                        So Fitch Williams designed and preety much prefected a nice design for us home shop type machinist.

                        I built a 5hp unit and its running strong on a 2hp BP for well, 12 years or so. Small lil unit. Its rotary but the electronics are designed for static also.

                        Thats where it came from.

                        Anyway. Check the couple resistors in his schematic. I have it. Cant give it. Hey.

                        Its online..

                        The resistors are called out. Watch the power and good luck JR

                        https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...ctions-101882/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          15,000ohms at 2 watts for Mr Williamiams design. R1 and R2. Thats all. JR

                          Clapper resistors. Yeah, they work :} If you go fancy and use and inductor it messes with the cap..

                          The res is the way to go.

                          And did I mention. I built his 5HP unit. Its sturdy.

                          Anyway. Maybe check his plans out. Might help. Love to here you got it worked out some how. JR

                          https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...ctions-101882/
                          Last edited by JRouche; 09-16-2021, 03:04 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
                            2) Even if it is just one machine, the entire control system may have to be ripped out and changed.
                            By control system, im assuming you mean the controls on whatever machine the VFD is powering, yes? Why would any of those need to be changed? If the VFD is pumping 3 phase into the machine, do the existing control systems really care how that 3 phase was generated, so long as its the correct voltage and frequency?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by epicfail48 View Post
                              By control system, im assuming you mean the controls on whatever machine the VFD is powering, yes? Why would any of those need to be changed? If the VFD is pumping 3 phase into the machine, do the existing control systems really care how that 3 phase was generated, so long as its the correct voltage and frequency?
                              No. The controls would work fine. You cannot USE them, but they would work fine.

                              The VFD will not.

                              A VFD has to start the motor slowly, because it is current limited. So, having the VFD "on", and hitting the start switch on the machine won't work, it will just trip the overcurrent limit. You need to use the VFD controls, and NOT the machine controls.

                              I Suppose you could just ignore the machine controls, but that's hard to do when you are used to them. You can also use a VFD that is about 3-4 times larger than otherwise needed. Due to the short term current capability, that would probably start the motor without a problem.
                              2730

                              Keep eye on ball.
                              Hashim Khan

                              Everything not impossible is compulsory

                              Comment

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