Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Phase O Matic Parts for 1200

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • JRouche
    replied
    Originally posted by epicfail48 View Post
    By control system, im assuming you mean the controls on whatever machine the VFD is powering, yes? Why would any of those need to be changed? If the VFD is pumping 3 phase into the machine, do the existing control systems really care how that 3 phase was generated, so long as its the correct voltage and frequency?
    I am not sure of your question, but I will get there..

    Do "Controls" work off of 3ph electricity?

    Partly, one branch, not all at the same time as the mill or lathe might. And as far as I have used homeshop generated type 3ph machines none of mine care what leg the control comes from. I always place the control on a solid leg though FYI..JR

    Controls that I have seen use any type of 115-120VAC (220-240_ with transformer). So it will be whittled down to 5VDC that controls use. JR


    Leave a comment:


  • outlawspeeder
    replied
    Originally posted by DR View Post
    What exactly is wrong with your RPC? Blown capacitor maybe?

    My 12 year old factory made unit blew a capacitor while running my mill. There was a sound like a piece of metal falling off a shelf. Looked around to see what it was, nothing. Then as I was looking at the RPC the thing burst into flame with fire coming out all the seams in the enclosure. Shut off the power. Flames went out. Apparently the metal hitting the floor noise was the capacitor can bursting. The flame must have been the oil from the capacitor burning. Took it back to the local manufacturer, 50 bucks to install new capacitor. Good to go even though all the components in the enclosure appeared scorched.

    Not sure what let go. The Relay was stuck closed and I have a new relay I am going to R2. I think the capacitors are good but I haven't checked them. I didn't have a pop but did have some wires melting. I order some CAPs but the frame size is smaller then what is in the enclosure but the size is the same.

    I have not had the time to get out to the shop to work on it.

    I will follow up when testing.

    Leave a comment:


  • JRouche
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
    JR.... one of the resistors is part of the start circuit, controlling the voltage relay. IIRC, the thing will not work right if it goes out. So could be, if so. Others are just for discharging capacitors, so you are correct, those won't affect actual operation.

    There isn't much in them, so should not be an issue to fix.
    I was just joking.

    I didnt know they were on seperate cucuits. I thought they were on the same curcit. Thats why I always defer to the professionals. Jerry will alway steer you right, IMO.. JR

    Leave a comment:


  • JRouche
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
    JR...Others are just for discharging capacitors, so you are correct,
    Watch out folks, go in doors. Crasy stuff is happening.

    Mr Jerry just said some one is correct. Thats unknown . UFOs got Jerry, damm!!

    JR

    Leave a comment:


  • J Tiers
    replied
    JR.... one of the resistors is part of the start circuit, controlling the voltage relay. IIRC, the thing will not work right if it goes out. So could be, if so. Others are just for discharging capacitors, so you are correct, those won't affect actual operation.

    There isn't much in them, so should not be an issue to fix.

    Leave a comment:


  • JRouche
    replied
    Originally posted by DR View Post
    What exactly is wrong with your RPC? Blown capacitor maybe?
    Hey Doc, sorry to butt in. Thats usually what pops in these older units.

    But he said the resistors looked cooked. How would a cooked resistor that didnt go open effect the rest of the curcuit? You would know, haha.. I hypothysis. You guys are educated. Thats why I ask. Great ideas and great minds. JR

    I Think a Res fail not entirly at once, as you would expect. This was a slow burn. Over heated, I dont think its the failure point. JR

    Leave a comment:


  • The Metal Butcher
    replied
    Originally posted by DR View Post
    What exactly is wrong with your RPC? Blown capacitor maybe?

    My 12 year old factory made unit blew a capacitor while running my mill. There was a sound like a piece of metal falling off a shelf. Looked around to see what it was, nothing. Then as I was looking at the RPC the thing burst into flame with fire coming out all the seams in the enclosure. Shut off the power. Flames went out. Apparently the metal hitting the floor noise was the capacitor can bursting. The flame must have been the oil from the capacitor burning. Took it back to the local manufacturer, 50 bucks to install new capacitor. Good to go even though all the components in the enclosure appeared scorched.
    One of dad's blew shortly after building his. I was running the Lagun at the time, working on some customer parts with the customer there. Lathe motor started to buzz loudly and I shut the RPC off. Smelled rank. Ended my day (it was in the evening.)

    Leave a comment:


  • DR
    replied
    What exactly is wrong with your RPC? Blown capacitor maybe?

    My 12 year old factory made unit blew a capacitor while running my mill. There was a sound like a piece of metal falling off a shelf. Looked around to see what it was, nothing. Then as I was looking at the RPC the thing burst into flame with fire coming out all the seams in the enclosure. Shut off the power. Flames went out. Apparently the metal hitting the floor noise was the capacitor can bursting. The flame must have been the oil from the capacitor burning. Took it back to the local manufacturer, 50 bucks to install new capacitor. Good to go even though all the components in the enclosure appeared scorched.

    Leave a comment:


  • J Tiers
    replied
    Originally posted by epicfail48 View Post
    By control system, im assuming you mean the controls on whatever machine the VFD is powering, yes? Why would any of those need to be changed? If the VFD is pumping 3 phase into the machine, do the existing control systems really care how that 3 phase was generated, so long as its the correct voltage and frequency?
    No. The controls would work fine. You cannot USE them, but they would work fine.

    The VFD will not.

    A VFD has to start the motor slowly, because it is current limited. So, having the VFD "on", and hitting the start switch on the machine won't work, it will just trip the overcurrent limit. You need to use the VFD controls, and NOT the machine controls.

    I Suppose you could just ignore the machine controls, but that's hard to do when you are used to them. You can also use a VFD that is about 3-4 times larger than otherwise needed. Due to the short term current capability, that would probably start the motor without a problem.

    Leave a comment:


  • epicfail48
    replied
    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post
    2) Even if it is just one machine, the entire control system may have to be ripped out and changed.
    By control system, im assuming you mean the controls on whatever machine the VFD is powering, yes? Why would any of those need to be changed? If the VFD is pumping 3 phase into the machine, do the existing control systems really care how that 3 phase was generated, so long as its the correct voltage and frequency?

    Leave a comment:


  • JRouche
    replied
    15,000ohms at 2 watts for Mr Williamiams design. R1 and R2. Thats all. JR

    Clapper resistors. Yeah, they work :} If you go fancy and use and inductor it messes with the cap..

    The res is the way to go.

    And did I mention. I built his 5HP unit. Its sturdy.

    Anyway. Maybe check his plans out. Might help. Love to here you got it worked out some how. JR

    https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...ctions-101882/
    Last edited by JRouche; 09-16-2021, 03:04 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • JRouche
    replied
    Originally posted by outlawspeeder View Post
    My Phase O mitic let the magic blue smoke out over the weekend.

    I sourced the Caps and the relays.

    Cap https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Relay from Mrsupply


    here is my problem, there are two resisters I cannot Identify or read. both look to have been hot.

    The first looks burnt but It lloks like 10W??RT the other is 7.5KOlms J.



    Click image for larger version

Name:	20210912_112608_resized.jpg
Views:	344
Size:	568.6 KB
ID:	1961321 Click image for larger version

Name:	20210912_112557_resized.jpg
Views:	320
Size:	577.0 KB
ID:	1961322

    Any help?
    I like that you are rebuilding.

    It may help. I gain much knowledge from Fitch. Downloaded more paper than needed. Great Man..

    So Fitch Williams designed and preety much prefected a nice design for us home shop type machinist.

    I built a 5hp unit and its running strong on a 2hp BP for well, 12 years or so. Small lil unit. Its rotary but the electronics are designed for static also.

    Thats where it came from.

    Anyway. Check the couple resistors in his schematic. I have it. Cant give it. Hey.

    Its online..

    The resistors are called out. Watch the power and good luck JR

    https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...ctions-101882/

    Leave a comment:


  • tom_d
    replied
    Originally posted by outlawspeeder View Post
    I am thinking about the VFD now. It is a 10hp motor. The only load on the motor during spin up is the BAP (Big Ass Pulley). Facebook Market place has a some no name VFDs. I was looking at those last night. 10HP VFD runs $229. Are they like rotor phase converter that you have to oversize them by 30-50%? Or will a 10HP VFD Power a 10HP motor. I also found a 20 HP rotary (used) on line. Bit pricy but it would power the shop if I can get enough power to out to the shop to spin it. I might have to put bigger wires in the ground.

    So the open questions:
    1. Will a 10HP VFD Power a 10HP motor?
    2. VFD size to motor size requirement?
    3. Is it time to break out the wire gauge chart to distance to see if I have to change wiring?
    4. Find a hobby that doesn't require 3 phase power? (not going to happen)
    Something to remember about a VFD is that most can deal with a really BAP by ramping up to speed slowly. They don't need to go from zero to ferocious in half a revolution while simultaneously dimming even the lights next door. Once at speed a flywheel is your friend.
    Last edited by tom_d; 09-15-2021, 09:39 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • 754
    replied
    What does Phase o Matic say about parts ?
    VFD sounds like gadgetcollector futzing about stuff.. i know they have their use , but a coming with a book on how to set it up to me sound complicated.
    meanwhile my RPC seems fine.
    i used a buddies lathe with VFD, because it is silent, its easy to forget to turn it off.,

    Leave a comment:


  • outlawspeeder
    replied
    POM Phase O Matic
    RPC Rotary Phase Converter
    VFD Variable Phase Drive

    I do have mutable machines. My Bridge Port is on a small POM 2ph, my Grinders share a 5HP RPC. This mill has a 10HP motor. To support this I need a 15-20 hp RPC, the cheapest I have found is $1300 and it looks like its been stored out in a field.

    VFD $200-$300 for HP per machine
    20 HP RPC $1200-$1500 but I could get rid of the rest of the shop.
    POM I picked up this one used for $100 used [and there is my problem]

    So will a 10HP VFD spin up the 10HP motor? I don't need the speed control. So ramp up and down is nice but once on speed, I would most likely use the setting on it.

    The other plus of a VFD is I can get rid of the old starter, fuses, heaters, and transformers.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X