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  • #16
    That's a custom epoxy coating. From your post I thought this was simply about using paint from rattle cans.


    Given the other baking times and the short 20 minutes for IR I suspect that the IR option is intended to be a pretty intense bank of lamps in a production line setup where parts pass through what is essentially a long IR "oven" on a suitable conveyor belt. But you'd want to confirm this with the makers.

    Short wave IR is also nothing special. it's the IR that is just below visible red on the spectrum. The old bathroom heat lamps and food warming lamps make lots of short wave IR along with the visible red to orange red.
    Last edited by BCRider; 10-02-2021, 11:31 PM.
    Chilliwack BC, Canada

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    • #17
      Originally posted by BCRider View Post
      That's a custom epoxy coating. From your post I thought this was simply about using paint from rattle cans.


      Given the other baking times and the short 20 minutes for IR I suspect that the IR option is intended to be a pretty intense bank of lamps in a production line setup where parts pass through what is essentially a long IR "oven" on a suitable conveyor belt. But you'd want to confirm this with the makers.

      Short wave IR is also nothing special. it's the IR that is just below visible red on the spectrum. The old bathroom heat lamps and food warming lamps make lots of short wave IR along with the visible red to orange red.
      Yes, that's what I use for primer. I did mention in my post #12 that I use automotive paint.
      I think the only things I ever painted with a rattle can are some C clamps.

      JL.................

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      • #18
        I can imagine that a coatings color will affect how quickly it absorbs the heat presented to it. If it appears light colored it would absorb more by conduction than by radiation. If it appears dark to the frequency of the radiation, it will absorb more quickly by radiation, and still by conduction too. Imagine trying to heat a mirror- the amount of heat you would feel reflecting off the mirror is the amount that doesn't go into heating the mirror. While the amount of difference might be lower with ordinary colors, it's still going to be there. In general though, I think infrared is going to be absorbed more fully by most surfaces that aren't actually reflective.
        I seldom do anything within the scope of logical reason and calculated cost/benefit, etc- I'm following my passion-

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        • #19
          Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
          Yes, that's what I use for primer. I did mention in my post #12 that I use automotive paint.
          I think the only things I ever painted with a rattle can are some C clamps.

          JL.................
          No doubt. I grew up the same.

          I did rattle can primer on a bare metal car. Epoxy, 2K primer...the one where you have to pop the can and get the mix on. it has a good pot life. And is a legit 2k primer Mask up, good to go! . Oh, you do pay for it though.. $20a can. That happens,,, And works..

          Months....

          Then I wanted to do two coats of some good ol Iso paint,.. Very nice. I did paint my car.. I am not a painter.

          The car should be the first hit on google 62 nova JR

          P.S. When spraying an ISO paint make ure you know thaty. Some dont..

          To spray mu car I use a 100 foot air line from where I was sprarying. Crasy, 100 foot air line.

          I was seriously afraid. I did not know anything about painting cars.. So yeah, I might have went over the top with my positive pressure suit. Space man.. JR

          Edit: I used the teyvek suit for the two gallons I mix=ed up and sprayed, Over primer. That chit is nasty.

          They would not ship to califrnia. Two gallons.. We figurede it out. I got my paint. Very good paint. jr
          Last edited by JRouche; 10-04-2021, 03:26 AM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by darryl View Post
            I can imagine that a coatings color will affect how quickly it absorbs the heat presented to it. If it appears light colored it would absorb more by conduction than by radiation. If it appears dark to the frequency of the radiation, it will absorb more quickly by radiation, and still by conduction too. Imagine trying to heat a mirror- the amount of heat you would feel reflecting off the mirror is the amount that doesn't go into heating the mirror. While the amount of difference might be lower with ordinary colors, it's still going to be there. In general though, I think infrared is going to be absorbed more fully by most surfaces that aren't actually reflective.
            In direct sun, yes color makes a difference as far as heat absorption.
            With heat lamps or IR I'm not sure if color would make much difference.
            I haven't looked at the data sheet for the acrylic enamel colors I use to see what the dry / cure times are. They may be different than the epoxy primer, but I'm sure that the dry times are the same for all the 2k paints. I can't imagine them having a data sheet and different dry times for all the various colors.

            JL..............

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            • #21
              Originally posted by JRouche View Post

              No doubt. I grew up the same.

              I did rattle can primer on a bare metal car. Epoxy, 2K primer...the one where you have to pop the can and get the mix on. it has a good pot life. And is a legit 2k primer Mask up, good to go! . Oh, you do pay for it though.. $20a can. That happens,,, And works..

              Months....

              Then I wanted to do two coats of some good ol Iso paint,.. Very nice. I did paint my car.. I am not a painter.

              The car should be the first hit on google 62 nova JR

              P.S. When spraying an ISO paint make ure you know thaty. Some dont..

              To spray mu car I use a 100 foot air line from where I was sprarying. Crasy, 100 foot air line.

              I was seriously afraid. I did not know anything about painting cars.. So yeah, I might have went over the top with my positive pressure suit. Space man.. JR
              Any paint in a rattle can isn't catalyzed so it can't possibly have the same properties as any two part paint.
              That epoxy primer I used cost me $70 a quart. Some auto body supply stores are selling it for $90, suggested retail is like $125. I can remember when I paid $35 for it. I forgot how much the hardener is, the reducer was cheap. That quart goes a long way. To get the same amount of coverage from rattle cans it would probably cost just as much or even more and wouldn't be as good. I don't think any of these products are getting any better as they keep taking all the "good stuff" out of them. remember my post on the stripper that no longer strips paint ? same deal.
              I've used just about every type and brand of automotive paint out there, but have never used anything but acrylic enamel on my machine restoration jobs.
              I used Centari with the gloss hardener for years and maybe some flattener to knock the shine down a bit. The local auto body supply store switched lines years ago, the went to PPG and their acrylic enamel was garbage so I switched to Limco 1-2-3 which I liked more than Centari. BASF did away with that line and went to the Supreme Plus. It was OK but not as good as the old stuff. Was really thin and required a third coat to cover. So....... they removed all or some of the "harmful ingredients" you know VOC laws etc. but now you have to spray three coats as opposed to two. So what was gained ???

              JL..............
              Last edited by JoeLee; 10-03-2021, 10:24 AM.

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              • #22
                As someone that worked for 20 years in the IR business It's been a long time since I've read so much mis-informaton about the subject. :-) Since so much is hearsay and that old "I feel" thing I'm not about to get into it. Oh and "Heat" does NOT rise. Hot air rises if there is gravity due to less density.. :-)
                ...lew...

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by BCRider View Post
                  That's a custom epoxy coating. From your post I thought this was simply about using paint from rattle cans.


                  Given the other baking times and the short 20 minutes for IR I suspect that the IR option is intended to be a pretty intense bank of lamps in a production line setup where parts pass through what is essentially a long IR "oven" on a suitable conveyor belt. But you'd want to confirm this with the makers.

                  Short wave IR is also nothing special. it's the IR that is just below visible red on the spectrum. The old bathroom heat lamps and food warming lamps make lots of short wave IR along with the visible red to orange red.
                  My first quess would have been also that IR is just heating source but this paper seem to point to possiblity that IR accelerates the curing more than temperature effect would alone: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1802.04612.pdf

                  UV cured adhesives are relying on the radiation to accelerate the process but UV has much better change to initiate all sorts of chemical reactions vs infrared
                  Location: Helsinki, Finland, Europe

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by MattiJ View Post
                    My first quess would have been also that IR is just heating source but this paper seem to point to possiblity that IR accelerates the curing more than temperature effect would alone: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1802.04612.pdf

                    UV cured adhesives are relying on the radiation to accelerate the process but UV has much better change to initiate all sorts of chemical reactions vs infrared
                    Interesting read but pretty long. That seems to be the case here with the epoxy and paint. I'm guessing that UV curing is totally different and is commonly used for curing fillings in teeth.

                    Another interesting thing is the shelf life of the hardener used for the paint. Some have a shelf life as short as 14 days once the container is opened.
                    I inquired about this as it can lead to a lot of waste for me not painting on a daily basis. I was told that once the can of hardener is opened and is exposed to oxygen a chemical reaction starts to take place that reacts with the polyisocyanates. To avoid spoiling the cans are filled and sealed in a nitrogen environment. So I thought, I have a cylinder of nitrogen. I could purge the can with it before capping it. The tech told me that is what the military does so no reason why it shouldn't work for me.

                    Some hardeners have longer shelf lives than others. I've used the BASF LHM hardner for the Limco paint that had been opened for over a year and the paint still cured.
                    Same with the hardener for the epoxy primer. What I did notice with that hardener is after a prolonged period of time it takes on an ammonia smell. The primer seemed to have cured properly as when I sanded it I got dust. Not properly cured it would clog up the sand paper.

                    JL................

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by JoeLee View Post
                      the went to PPG and their acrylic enamel was garbage so I switched to Limco 1-2-3 which I liked more than Centari. BASF
                      JL..............
                      Well the thing is. You just named the top of the top so....

                      They are pricey.. I ordered 2 gallons of paint. Shipping was 25. the paint was more.... JR

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