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Twist drill vs spade tipped drill - for holes larger than say 1 inch dia?

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  • #31
    How times have changed! My late grandfather told me a story from his apprenticeship days around 1900, of having competitions to see who could produce the longest unbroken chip. I think about 20 yards was his personal best, with several other apprentices holding the chip and backing out of the door with the end. Then the foreman came around-----.
    'It may not always be the best policy to do what is best technically, but those responsible for policy can never form a right judgement without knowledge of what is right technically' - 'Dutch' Kindelberger

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    • #32
      Originally posted by DR View Post

      Most shops would consider that too dangerous a machine to use with all those long chips.
      I do not get near the chips when such a machine is running, sitting in a chair several feet away until it stops is much nicer (-:
      Walking away and doing something else is even better.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by eKretz View Post

        I should hope not. Have we really become that bad? Drilling is a pretty low speed operation, and although the operator of the machine really should have been breaking those chips, they aren't very dangerous when the tool is not rotating.
        Come on, what do you think the situation will be if that mass of chips catches on the chuck and begin spinning. Plus, the idiotic operator reached over the chips while the machine was running to adjust the coolant.

        I don't know if you own a commercial shop or not. I do and can tell you a safety inspector seeing that would slap somebody with a hefty fine. Never under estimate the stupidity of employees.

        The least the operator should do is not generate the long chips. He could do it by periodically stopping the feed or use tools that chip break. He could also clean up the long ones before starting a new piece.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by DR View Post

          Come on, what do you think the situation will be if that mass of chips catches on the chuck and begin spinning. Plus, the idiotic operator reached over the chips while the machine was running to adjust the coolant.

          I don't know if you own a commercial shop or not. I do and can tell you a safety inspector seeing that would slap somebody with a hefty fine. Never under estimate the stupidity of employees.

          The least the operator should do is not generate the long chips. He could do it by periodically stopping the feed or use tools that chip break. He could also clean up the long ones before starting a new piece.
          I think if the chips were to get caught up in the chuck he would stop the machine immediately and clear the chips. As anyone with half a brain would do. The speed when drilling large diameter holes is pretty slow and generally the chips from drilling don't get anywhere near the chuck jaws even if they do get long. There is a very big difference between what a "safety inspector" would find unsafe (every other thing that happens in a machine shop maybe?) and what is actually seriously unsafe. And yes, as I mentioned previously, he should have been breaking the chips. I do have my own shop, have also worked in plenty of others as supervision, and this did not look majorly unsafe to me. (There is not much in a machine shop to do with manual machines that could not do a body harm). He reached over to turn on the coolant before any chips were even being formed. Afterwards he got back well away from the machine while it was drilling.

          If the guy had been OD turning at 600 RPM and getting a bad case of stringer chips I would be singing a different tune. But this is not that.
          Last edited by eKretz; 10-14-2021, 01:04 AM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by DR View Post

            Most shops would consider that too dangerous a machine to use with all those long chips.
            They are not too concerned there, Operator with ear protection (which may be just tunes, not ear protection), but I saw no safety glasses....... And the drill grind looks bad, I see only one long chip string, not two.
            2730

            Keep eye on ball.
            Hashim Khan

            Everything not impossible is compulsory

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            • #36
              This is exactly what I like about this forum, informed discussion (-:

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              • #37
                Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

                They are not too concerned there, Operator with ear protection (which may be just tunes, not ear protection), but I saw no safety glasses....... And the drill grind looks bad, I see only one long chip string, not two.
                I hadn't noticed that from the rear view, that would have been an instant day off without pay in many places where I've worked. That is a definite no-no.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by eKretz View Post

                  I hadn't noticed that from the rear view, that would have been an instant day off without pay in many places where I've worked. That is a definite no-no.
                  The operator is seen from the front briefly, and from the side more than once. If there were safety glasses, I did not see them.

                  Yes, not using safety equipment is an instant day off at least, most anywhere. Refusal is generally grounds for a permanent vacation.
                  2730

                  Keep eye on ball.
                  Hashim Khan

                  Everything not impossible is compulsory

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by J Tiers View Post

                    The operator is seen from the front briefly, and from the side more than once. If there were safety glasses, I did not see them.

                    Yes, not using safety equipment is an instant day off at least, most anywhere. Refusal is generally grounds for a permanent vacation.
                    You are a peach Tears.

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                    • #40
                      The safety equipment thing makes sense when you realize who pays Workman's Comp, and who gets dinged by OSHA. No company wants claims, and failure to wear required equipment is bad from the Workman's comp point of view, and also from the OSHA point of view. Both cost money.

                      If the guy really isn't wearing safety glasses, he's a risk for the employer.
                      2730

                      Keep eye on ball.
                      Hashim Khan

                      Everything not impossible is compulsory

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        For me, in my small garage I dont like a long chip load. Its a problem.

                        And yet there is always a long assed chip hanging off the work!?

                        Ill break it off as needed. I dont like a birds nest of purple razors popping out to say hi. And I run blue, brown and purple chips.

                        I dont want any of them in my face. I snap them off when needed. Simple cresent wrench is my go to. Dont ever grap the nest, even with gloves. Use a tool. I have a rake also.. JR

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by aribert View Post
                          Does a spade drill require much greater power / force to push the drill into the work?
                          I don't know the answer to that, having zero experience with spade drills. But, I do know that twist drills are made up to 3" (75mm) dia with Morse taper shanks. I had to use those at an old job in my mis-spent youth, on a large radial drill.
                          25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by nickel-city-fab View Post

                            I don't know the answer to that, having zero experience with spade drills. But, I do know that twist drills are made up to 3" (75mm) dia with Morse taper shanks. I had to use those at an old job in my mis-spent youth, on a large radial drill.
                            MMR, I can imagine a home shop user trying to push a 2" insert spade drill through steel with a 1925 era 2 HP South Bend lathe.
                            This is not a good choice.

                            "Them insert spade drills don't work" Cletus
                            Last edited by Bented; 10-15-2021, 06:01 AM.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Bented View Post

                              MMR, I can imagine a home shop user trying to push a 2" insert spade drill through steel with a 1925 era 2 HP South Bend lathe.
                              This is not a good choice.

                              "Them insert spade drills don't work" Cletus
                              Ja, I would be amazed if a SB did anything bigger than 3/4. For larger holes I would want an annular cutter or just use the boring bar. That radial drill I used back in the day must have had 20 hp and weighed 5 tons. Big old Carlton with a 8 foot arm.
                              Last edited by nickel-city-fab; 10-15-2021, 08:51 AM.
                              25 miles north of Buffalo NY, USA

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                              • #45
                                I used a 7/8" insert spade drill in alu once on my SB9, worked very nicely. PRobably wouldn't have worked as well in steel though

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