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  • #46
    Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post

    No - that statement stands --- very surprised as in in disbelief,,,

    it's too much benefit and im glad I stated that... I knew what was happening from the get go --- But ---

    Also glad I did not write it off as total nonsense --- as in your quote and I quote; " May as well use a cordless blower and recover the energy by using a wind powered generator to charge the batteries. Physics be damned."


    You do know propulsion can be had this way right? right?

    just making sure you, tomato coupe and fasttrack know the basics, no harm done...
    AK, the reason I made that statement is that the OP's linked video was so far out of touch with reality that I had no recourse but to call it what it was, blasphemy of physics. Sure one can vector thrust reward and get some minuscule amount of work done with his setup. But in the case of the man in the bucket with a leaf blower using a less than ideal shape while blocking almost 50% of what little vectored thrust remained with his body it was ludicrous to assume he could achieve that kind of speed.

    He would not have been capable of even getting close to that kind of speed if he had used 100% of the leaf blowers thrust.

    This is why I was surprised to see you make the statement that you did:

    I am surprised by the amount that's harvested for actual propulsion....
    Even your own well laid out setup using a far superior form of thrust reversal demonstrates very clearly that the reversal of thrust shows some dramatic differences of efficiency vs the un-vectored thrust achieved from the nozzle alone.

    Look at the amount of work done by taking note of the angle from the suspended hose. Dramatic difference, and this from a far more efficient form of thrust reversal. Put an obstruction between the cone and one side of nozzle to simulate the man's body impeding airflow to see how much that alone will hurt efficiency. Now use a less than ideal shape like an umbrella and see what little is left.
    Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
    Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

    Location: British Columbia

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    • #47
      Originally posted by BCRider View Post

      I think if you can check the wind you'll find that they are not going directly downwind but at some angle in order to keep up their speed.
      Yes, I'm a sailor and watched a lot of the cup. I just didn't want to bore everyone with the details It seems like magic because it's just not something a normal sailboat can accomplish. Old time sailors are rolling in their graves at an America's Cup without spinnakers!
      Location: Jersey City NJ USA

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Willy View Post

        AK, the reason I made that statement is that the OP's linked video was so far out of touch with reality that I had no recourse but to call it what it was, blasphemy of physics. Sure one can vector thrust reward and get some minuscule amount of work done with his setup. But in the case of the man in the bucket with a leaf blower using a less than ideal shape while blocking almost 50% of what little vectored thrust remained with his body it was ludicrous to assume he could achieve that kind of speed.

        He would not have been capable of even getting close to that kind of speed if he had used 100% of the leaf blowers thrust.

        This is why I was surprised to see you make the statement that you did:



        Even your own well laid out setup using a far superior form of thrust reversal demonstrates very clearly that the reversal of thrust shows some dramatic differences of efficiency vs the un-vectored thrust achieved from the nozzle alone.

        Look at the amount of work done by taking note of the angle from the suspended hose. Dramatic difference, and this from a far more efficient form of thrust reversal. Put an obstruction between the cone and one side of nozzle to simulate the man's body impeding airflow to see how much that alone will hurt efficiency. Now use a less than ideal shape like an umbrella and see what little is left.
        Willy - in most part agreement with everything you stated, and in fact you've come along way from your perpetual motion theory lol


        here's what we know - and here's why I do not believe the data can be called "conclusive" ---------- yet,,,

        besides the gas pump clip - where all gas pumps by law have to be installed on LEVEL ground,,, we really don't know what's going on in the vid, and as far as your questioning much of the propulsion bennie's being effected by the guys own body - remember - your not the only one - I cried foul on that too,

        BUT, what leads credit in his favor - and yes even if most of his stuff is shot at a mild downhill - is the part in the clip where they caught him leaning way back for extra propulsion --- and then when he realized he was within camera view? he straightened right up and "hammed it up" lol

        One has to ask - if he had an abundance of electrical energies to the wheels why did that even happen? best showmanship would be to do it all the time when you know the camera's rolling and people are going to watching... although - could also be a well played strategic move for the more involved in watching?...

        One thing for sure - this is going to be a great learning vid for allot of people out there - there's already U-boob vids of people trying to recreate it and doing it totally wrong and as a result getting totally wrong or very lame results because they do not understand vector forces at all....




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        • #49
          Originally posted by Willy View Post




          Even your own well laid out setup using a far superior form of thrust reversal demonstrates very clearly that the reversal of thrust shows some dramatic differences of efficiency vs the un-vectored thrust achieved from the nozzle alone.

          .
          I initially missed this part --- Willy, they were actually damn close to the same - look at the pics again, both were with the compressor only at about 35 to 40 psi,,,

          use the vertical garage door beams as your leveling meter, also note that due to the uneven balance of the airgun it already favors the right angle courtesy of the stagnant pics...

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          • #50
            I've been staying out of this one, but I can comment that aircraft thrust reversers don't produce anywhere near the level of rearward force that the same mass flow of gas through the engine produces with reversers stowed. The reversers are not built to withstand an impact force equivalent to the forward thrust of the engine. It is simply the re-direction of the mass to something like a shallow-forward-fan shape that produces the reverse thrust. The actual forward flow of exhaust created by the clamshell type reverser is a little more 'forward' than the angle of the deflectors seems to indicate.

            A.K., there is no increase in energy of the air coming out of your cone. You can't make something from nothing. You increase the velocity, the pressure decreases and the reverse. Scale your experiment to equivalent pressure, volume area and weight as that dufus with the leaf blower and it will look like a baby farting at the curtains across the room.
            Southwest Utah

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            • #51
              Originally posted by chipmaker4130 View Post

              A.K., there is no increase in energy of the air coming out of your cone. You can't make something from nothing..
              Where in the world did you get that? I never stated there was,
              only the harnessing of the vector forces that would otherwise be wasted... results are in the pics,,,

              and im not making something of nothing - there was a variance of pressure to start with - I happen to know how to harness it and redirect it somewhat efficiently --- but believe me - could do way better - almost as much so as to match the initial propulsion itself - yes no lie - minus some minor parasitic drag in the process...

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Fasttrack View Post
                ... did anyone notice the skateboard wheels and trucks? Looks like he built the contraption around an electric skateboard. The leaf blower and umbrella are props. Example electric circuit board:

                https://bustinboards.com/products/yo...BoCCHoQAvD_BwE
                Did you notice that the original section, from dumping the water up to pulling the cord on the blower, the tub is on its own wheels. Then, magically, it's on the skateboard, but your eye can be fooled.
                2730

                Keep eye on ball.
                Hashim Khan

                Everything not impossible is compulsory

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post

                  Where in the world did you get that? I never stated there was,
                  only the harnessing of the vector forces that would otherwise be wasted...
                  I'm sure you can collect and direct whatever forces you have, but your demonstration showed me nothing. You go to every hanging hose in your shop, hold it pointing straight up a foot from the tip and then lean it through four or six points of the compass. It will droop more in some directions than others. Even brand new hose will do it because of the spool-set it acquires in storage. And that's just one tiny factor. It was interesting, but merely anecdotal.
                  Southwest Utah

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by chipmaker4130 View Post

                    I'm sure you can collect and direct whatever forces you have, but your demonstration showed me nothing. You go to every hanging hose in your shop, hold it pointing straight up a foot from the tip and then lean it through four or six points of the compass. It will droop more in some directions than others. Even brand new hose will do it because of the spool-set it acquires in storage. And that's just one tiny factor. It was interesting, but merely anecdotal.
                    Hey - bottom line - im the kinda guy that goes through the motions to show others how things work, attack all you want I already got credits from both Matt and Willy on the "display" and im happy with that,,, other bottom line ? your opinion is irrelevant to me. but have a nice day

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by A.K. Boomer View Post
                      . . .your opinion is irrelevant to me. but have a nice day
                      Here's one for you: 'agree to disagree'. I'm sorry that you feel I've attacked you. I haven't. I know that you're convinced, and I am not. That's fine, it may turn out that I am wrong. Ok, it won't be the first time. One who is unable to seriously consider an opposing view is so narrowly focused as to miss a great deal. You're basing your conclusion on your hard-earned knowledge and intelligence as well as a lifetime of experience. So am I. But for me, its fun!

                      Southwest Utah

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by chipmaker4130 View Post

                        Here's one for you: 'agree to disagree'. I'm sorry that you feel I've attacked you. I haven't. I know that you're convinced, and I am not. That's fine, it may turn out that I am wrong. Ok, it won't be the first time. One who is unable to seriously consider an opposing view is so narrowly focused as to miss a great deal. You're basing your conclusion on your hard-earned knowledge and intelligence as well as a lifetime of experience. So am I. But for me, its fun!
                        I like that --- and im not offended, that's just well said...

                        but there are people who just speculate and people who at least make an effort beyond... I do know the category I fall into with that and am proud of it cuz it's why I know what I know today,,, another proto type coming up --- stay tuned cuz this ones extremely refined :-)

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by chipmaker4130 View Post

                          I haven't. I know that you're convinced, and I am not.
                          Convinced of what might I ask?

                          t seems totally reasonable that the air gun moved "backwards" in Boomers experiment, but I hope nobody actually believes that a leaf blower and an umbrella could even come close to overcoming the friction to move a guy on a skateboard.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by polaraligned View Post

                            Convinced of what might I ask?

                            t seems totally reasonable that the air gun moved "backwards" in Boomers experiment, but I hope nobody actually believes that a leaf blower and an umbrella could even come close to overcoming the friction to move a guy on a skateboard.
                            Still does not mean the skateboard is electric powered - he could be cheating in much more "honest" ways like I stated take a look at how kids can coast on a skateboard indefinitely with just a 2% negative grade, yeah - those ceramic wheel bearings are really something, prime opportune segmented video clips can do wonders,,,

                            Hey - everybody's doing it - read the fine print with some of the E-bike claims after the bold print with one of these behind it *

                            * two hour run time at 23mph is based on pedaling assist at moderate pace the entire time on a 2% negative grade ---- you just got shamboozled dumbarss thank you for your money... have a nice day

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                            • #59
                              Yes it helps tremendously to eliminate as much as possible any parasitic losses, and at minuscule power inputs like this or a skateboard at very slight angles, rolling resistance is the predominant factor to overcome.
                              One of the reasons trains are so efficient in tons per mile cost efficiency.
                              Home, down in the valley behind the Red Angus
                              Bad Decisions Make Good Stories​

                              Location: British Columbia

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                              • #60
                                For sure --- and despite the small wheel size skateboard wheels are very hard,,, they don't do well on rough road but smooth pavement they actually are pretty efficient...

                                a mild grade with an added little push is all it would take to create the segments were seeing, Im not sure if it's that or the ultimate cheat meaning more level and "powered wheels"....

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